Approved Rider Training Insurance Cover (QBE)

[Falco]

Looking at taking my Blade to CSS so I thought best to contact the insurance co. first.
Bad news for those of you, like me, had assumed for whatever reasons that QBE cover this type of advanced rider training.

Below is a link to all the rider training courses that QBE do cover.
Basicly, if its not on this list then its not covered, with QBE at least. :(

QBE Approved Rider Training (http://www.qbe.com.au/Personal/Motorcycle/Approved-Rider-Training/index.htm)

[Turtle]

Looking at taking my Blade to CSS so I thought best to contact the insurance co. first.
Bad news for those of you, like me, had assumed for whatever reasons that QBE cover this type of advanced rider training.

Below is a link to all the rider training courses that QBE do cover.
Basicly, if its not on this list then its not covered, with QBE at least. :(

QBE Approved Rider Training (http://www.qbe.com.au/Personal/Motorcycle/Approved-Rider-Training/index.htm)

Try Shannons............

[Turtle]

"Morgan and Wacker"............would you trust them ???

[Captain]

Morgan and Wacker :lmao:

[dazzler]

what level you doing falco

they say "to get the most out of these courses, stick to the drill at about 50%-70% of your usual race(i mean trackday)pace"

i took my pride and joy out to both level 1 and 2 and ran at 50-70% and was not worried i was being too stupid.

[trumpst]

Just out of interest- there seems to be a few 'rider training' events on the QBE list that could be quite similar to CSS. Is it worth having someone from CSS send info to insurance companies (and there's not too man that cover bikes) about the benefits of their training and therefore benefits o the insurer? I'm not sure who would do this? Just a thought:confused1:

[Turtle]

Looking at taking my Blade to CSS so I thought best to contact the insurance co. first.
Bad news for those of you, like me, had assumed for whatever reasons that QBE cover this type of advanced rider training.

Below is a link to all the rider training courses that QBE do cover.
Basicly, if its not on this list then its not covered, with QBE at least. :(

QBE Approved Rider Training (http://www.qbe.com.au/Personal/Motorcycle/Approved-Rider-Training/index.htm)

Time to get to work on that Blade, Falco ???

[jasonbw]

I see the point Trumpst, but they have Stay Upright Intermediate ONLY on their list... looks like they've take a blanket approach to all advanced rider training that your not covered.

As of 6 months ago Shannons is the only insurer to cover you for rider training under NON MA approved events, i.e. Stay Upright, CSS etc (those that DONT make you sign a MA one day license).

[Turtle]

i see the point trumpst, but they have stay upright intermediate only on their list... Looks like they've take a blanket approach to all advanced rider training that your not covered.

As of 6 months ago shannons is the only insurer to cover you for rider training under non ma approved events, i.e. Stay upright, css etc (those that dont make you sign a ma one day license).

can they be trusted this time jase .........

[SIX36]

It quotes at the bottom of the page to contact them to get your course added so it would be great if Alex could also get his course added as well as CSS.

[Falco]

Just got off the phone from Shannons.....no joy there either.

Page 20-22 on their PDS

http://www.shannons.com.au/downloads/motor2008-pds.pdf

There is no guessing why that is anymore, TURTLE. :stirthepot: lol.

[Falco]

I even tried the 'jump ship spell' from QBE with the Shannons rep just so that I could do CSS.
He did'nt want a bar of it.

[Captain]

Jason, are you saying that CSS is covered by Shannons?

[Turtle]

I thought they were......

[Johnny]

I thought they were......
I think after dealing with you, they learnt there lesson and are now just saying NO, upfront.:lmao:

[Turtle]

I think after dealing with you, they learnt there lesson and are now just saying NO, upfront.:lmao:

:lmao:

[Falco]

Ebike.com might hold a glimmer of hope....
Page 17 within their disclosure statement.

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS.
We do not cover any loss, damage or liability incurred whilst the insured mororcycle is being:

1-3 Blah, blah, blah.
4. used on any track, raceway or other area assigned permanently or otherwise as a track or raceway, unless for the exclusive purpose of rider training and whilst under the direct supervision of an accredited, licensed riding instuctor.

[Johnny]

Which ever path you decide to go on, Falco, if there is anything to be learnt by Turtle's experience, is to get it in writing, with said date, course and track included in writing !

Having said that, you are more likely to come off on a rideday, than that of a course, as you are following drills (hopefully) and at a much slower pace, not out to brake lap record or your pb. A much safer day, and you are doing trackdays without any form of insurance anyway. Which ofcourse leads to , pressume you will be taking out your rd bike, not your tracky ? well thats something to think about if it worries you, as you do have a choice, unlike those of us with no option to take out rd bike to track, and there are many rd bikes out there..

[Falco]

If it does come to it I'll take my R6.
Would still like to take the Blade and open it up a tad. That said, the oppitunity to get some time on it within a safe environment appeals somewhat. Maybe last weekends moment has something to do with it.

Cant beat the track surface for a controlled, predictable areana.

[Turtle]

Which ever path you decide to go on, Falco, if there is anything to be learnt by Turtle's experience, is to get it in writing, with said date, course and track included in writing !

Having said that, you are more likely to come off on a rideday, than that of a course, as you are following drills (hopefully) and at a much slower pace, not out to brake lap record or your pb. A much safer day, and you are doing trackdays without any form of insurance anyway. Which ofcourse leads to , pressume you will be taking out your rd bike, not your tracky ? well thats something to think about if it worries you, as you do have a choice, unlike those of us with no option to take out rd bike to track, and there are many rd bikes out there..

+1.........the only thing that got me my payout was that they had noted and approved it on the policy, which the Ombudsman saw and straight away awarded the payout....

[Johnny]

Would still like to take the Blade and open it up a tad. That said, the oppitunity to get some time on it within a safe environment appeals somewhat .
Take it out, dont be a big girls blouse :p

It is a much safer day, all riders are following drills at a much relaxed pace than that of a trackday, those who dont are given less leniancy than that of a trackday and are pulled in promptly and spoken too.
Very few, if any come off on CSS days mate, yes, I have seen a couple, but that was through their own mistakes, not caused by or affecting others ;)

[Johnny]

+1.........the only thing that got me my payout was that they had noted and approved it on the policy, which the Ombudsman saw and straight away awarded the payout....

Still amazes me that they tried to get out of it anyway though :confused1:

[Turtle]

Still amazes me that they tried to get out of it anyway though :confused1:

Mate i had this guy from there telling me "Mate your not gonna get payed, you were on a racetrack" and he was a really rude prick the way he spoke to me everytime i called, he was like the "Case handler" ...funny thing was, once the ombudsman Told them to pay me, he had to call me and apologise for the "Misunderstanding"......:lmao: Who's laughing now Asshole.........:lmao:

[Turtle]

Take it out, dont be a big girls blouse :p

It is a much safer day, all riders are following drills at a much relaxed pace than that of a trackday, those who dont are given less leniancy than that of a trackday and are pulled in promptly and spoken too.
Very few, if any come off on CSS days mate, yes, I have seen a couple, but that was through their own mistakes, not caused by or affecting others ;)

When you think about it, it is safer than being on the road, twice/three times wider, better surface etc etc.....

[Johnny]

funny thing was, once the ombudsman Told them to pay me, he had to call me and apologise for the "Misunderstanding"......:lmao: Who's laughing now Asshole.........:lmao:Karmah got the bitch..... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Turtle]

Karmah got the bitch..... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

:mod_smilie_rockwoot

[Zee]

Ebike.com might hold a glimmer of hope....
Page 17 within their disclosure statement.

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS.
We do not cover any loss, damage or liability incurred whilst the insured mororcycle is being:

1-3 Blah, blah, blah.
4. used on any track, raceway or other area assigned permanently or otherwise as a track or raceway, unless for the exclusive purpose of rider training and whilst under the direct supervision of an accredited, licensed riding instuctor.


ebike also have a list of approved courses...it's one of the questions of their policy followed by a drop down list which include what they believe to be worthy. You choose what you done, if any at all as part of your assessment.

That clause of unless is up for debate and who and, by whom is the assigned accredited licenced provider??? :confused:
Unless they give you a definition of what that is exactly, I'd personally stick to the list. :ayyy:
We can't go through another Turtle saga, now can we?? :dohsmiley:



Take the thou mate! I took the 1...no biggie.
Give it a little on the last session of the day and see just how farkin fast T1can really comes up at ya :eek::eek::eek:

[jasonbw]

Just got off the phone from Shannons.....no joy there either.

Page 20-22 on their PDS

http://www.shannons.com.au/downloads/motor2008-pds.pdf

There is no guessing why that is anymore, TURTLE. :stirthepot: lol.

Wow, they've made it bloody clear, NO COVERAGE UNDER SHANNONS FOR RIDER PERFORMANCE TRAINING!

[Turtle]

Wow, they've made it bloody clear, NO COVERAGE UNDER SHANNONS FOR RIDER PERFORMANCE TRAINING!

I wonder what prompted that ??? :confused1:

[jasonbw]

Jason, are you saying that CSS is covered by Shannons?

No sir, my comment was that 6 months ago it was, but Falco's just given us the good oil.

So the only option is eBike, and that's a maybe at best!

[jasonbw]

I wonder what prompted that ??? :confused1:

I know that was sacrastic, but, they were fine to continue considering your case was a one-off, it wasn't a CSS that you crashed at, it was a CB school, they're under M.A. and it was even in the PDS that any school operating under M.A. is not covered .

P.s. Johnny, you can't get anything in writing... they refer to the PDS, but they did put it on the "screen" that we requested coverage and it was granted. That's what saved Turtle even though officially he shouldn't have been paid. - Then again, if they had been upfront and told him no cover he wouldn't have ridden in the wet methinks!

[Turtle]

I know that was sacrastic, but, they were fine to continue considering your case was a one-off, it wasn't a CSS that you crashed at, it was a CB school, they're under M.A. and it was even in the PDS that any school operating under M.A. is not covered .

P.s. Johnny, you can't get anything in writing... they refer to the PDS, but they did put it on the "screen" that we requested coverage and it was granted. That's what saved Turtle even though officially he shouldn't have been paid. - Then again, if they had been upfront and told him no cover he wouldn't have ridden in the wet methinks!

No Jason, if you remember , they changed the PDS straight after, or during my case......

[Captain]

Falco, if it was me I'd take the blade to the track at the earliest opportunity. To me that's the whole point of a bike like that ... it would be like me buying a Ferrari; I would only do so IF I did track days with it. What's the point of a high-powered machine like that if not to ride it fast - very fast?
That's my view, and the reason I bought a sportbike; if I were to buy a bike for the street I'd still be riding the Blackbird - plenty of stick and much more comfortable.
To me it's a no-brainer, risk or not. Take it to the track :ayyy:

[Falco]

Your right Cappy, the whole point of the exercise was to ride the Blade.

Either way im booked for the 17th March.

:confused:

[jasonbw]

No Jason, if you remember , they changed the PDS straight after, or during my case......

No use restarting it all but thats not correct, grab the old pds (if you have it) and read out the part where it said under what you are not covered for, any activities conducted under an authoritative body, they state an example such as C.A.M.S. (in our case, M.A.).
If you dont have the PDS from back then, just trust me, I made near 20 phone calls in your case, I have a perfectly clear memory of how they made a promise their PDS didnt agree with, no matter how obscure the line was, it was there. Anyway, long gone, glad it worked out.

[X27]

Ebike.com might hold a glimmer of hope....
Page 17 within their disclosure statement.

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS.
We do not cover any loss, damage or liability incurred whilst the insured mororcycle is being:

1-3 Blah, blah, blah.
4. used on any track, raceway or other area assigned permanently or otherwise as a track or raceway, unless for the exclusive purpose of rider training and whilst under the direct supervision of an accredited, licensed riding instuctor.


Which is why I insure my 1098S through ebike....and they were half the price of everbody else:ayyy:

[Falco]

Which is why I insure my 1098S through ebike....and they were half the price of everbody else:ayyy:

Have you discussed this part of the disclaimer with Ebike and notified them of any CSS rider training?
If so, what was the response?

[Turtle]

No use restarting it all but thats not correct, grab the old pds (if you have it) and read out the part where it said under what you are not covered for, any activities conducted under an authoritative body, they state an example such as C.A.M.S. (in our case, M.A.).
If you dont have the PDS from back then, just trust me, I made near 20 phone calls in your case, I have a perfectly clear memory of how they made a promise their PDS didnt agree with, no matter how obscure the line was, it was there. Anyway, long gone, glad it worked out.

No worries....i'll take ya word for it..........Great teamwork huh ?? :mod_smilie_rockwoot

[jasonbw]

Mate the whole of RATs were behind you big time, awesome.

Falco I'm dead keen to hear too, eBike would win some insurance market if they agreed.

[Lopeman]

I would strongly warn against EBike. . .a family friend just got done over by them. He had full comp and was taken out by an uninsured driver, they will only pay out $3000

Quote"Uninsured Third Party
If the insured motorcycle is involved in a no-fault accident with an uninsured third party, we
will cover damage to the insured motorcycle only, up to a maximum of $3,000.00 for any one
claim, provided that you supply us with the third party’s full names and contact details and
the registration number of the third party’s vehicle."

[*Oggy*]

I would strongly warn against EBike. . .a family friend just got done over by them. He had full comp and was taken out by an uninsured driver, they will only pay out $3000

Quote"Uninsured Third Party
If the insured motorcycle is involved in a no-fault accident with an uninsured third party, we
will cover damage to the insured motorcycle only, up to a maximum of $3,000.00 for any one
claim, provided that you supply us with the third party’s full names and contact details and
the registration number of the third party’s vehicle."

Ouch...... How small was that writing in the policy......

[Lopeman]

its about 3 quarters of the way down.

its a bitch if you ask me. he is taking them to court, whats the point of full comp if your not fully covered

[Captain]

That's bullshit Oggy .... mate this should be made public. A fair percentage on claims would fall under this category. What a bunch of thieves.

[Zee]

^^How so???? clearly stated in the pds with the rest of the inclusions and exclusions.

[Captain]

Because I'm thinking that most people don't read the fine print ... and there are certain things that you would expect to be covered under 'comprehensive' insurance. Having you bike covered if the party at fault is uninsured (or won't / can't pay) is one of them.

[Zee]

It's not small print at all....same std font all the way through.
But you're correct, buyers of policies do not read what they are buying and to assume with insurance companies is well, stupid.

[Falco]

Check out Ebikes 'Scope of Cover'.....page 14 on their PDS.

X27, that 1098 beast of yours is only worth 10K if it get stolen but only if its taken from your garage. Otherwise nothing

Am i reading this correctly?

The uninsured third party payout of 3K mentioned above is clearly stated there also.

What a pack of arseholes!


http://www.ebikeinsurance.com.au/common/policydocs/bike/au_ebike_product_disclosure.pdf

[jasonbw]

WOW... no cover if stolen when it's outside of the garage!!!

[Zee]

Check out Ebikes 'Scope of Cover'.....page 14 on their PDS.

X27, that 1098 beast of yours is only worth 10K if it get stolen but only if its taken from your garage. Otherwise nothing

Am i reading this correctly?

The uninsured third party payout of 3K mentioned above is clearly stated there also.

What a pack of arseholes!


http://www.ebikeinsurance.com.au/common/policydocs/bike/au_ebike_product_disclosure.pdf




If you've bought the Third Party Fire & Theft policy, than yes, you are correct.

[Johnny]

Can I just say............ Exposed !!!!!

[Alex.]

Fucking thieves!

[wade193]

Because I'm thinking that most people don't read the fine print ... and there are certain things that you would expect to be covered under 'comprehensive' insurance. Having you bike covered if the party at fault is uninsured (or won't / can't pay) is one of them.

Totally agree. You take out comprehensive to avoid any loss.

Only getting paid out if its stolen from your garage is BS. Stolen is stolen!!

[BigB]

Dunno what happened to Lopeman's friend, but the PDS doesn't read the way some of you guys are making out...

The Comprehensive policy does not have the exclusions that are stated for the Fire and theft policies.

The way I read it, there's no problem and no unreasonable rules !!!

Maybe Lopeman can double check the facts about what happend to the "family friend". If eBike are twisting the meaning then I want to know because I am an eBike customer, but I'm outa there if it is true !!!

B...

[Lopeman]

yeah, i had to read it a few times. as it says, for full comp Section 1 and section 2 apply.

and if you go down to section 2 to "Policy Extentions" it has the blurb about an insurered rider (you) having a "no-fault" accident with a third party (other driver) that is uninsurered. It stated that they will only pay out $3000.

When i was updating my insurance i rang them and asked them about this and they said "yes, only $3000 if someone else hits you that is uninsured". I then laughed and hung up.

Give them a call and double checkn though, i called up over a yr ago.

[BigB]

Hmmmm,

Yeah, seems ambiguous doesn't it !!!

But then I suppose... that's the point !

I still read it that this (third party) extension ONLY applies to the Fire and theft covers (as it is specifically mentioned in the first paragraph), but I wouldn't stake my life on it !!!

I think I will need to make a call...

B...

[Bigdog]

Hmmmm,

Yeah, seems ambiguous doesn't it !!!

But then I suppose... that's the point !

I still read it that this (third party) extension ONLY applies to the Fire and theft covers (as it is specifically mentioned in the first paragraph), but I wouldn't stake my life on it !!!

I think I will need to make a call...

B...

Please let us all know how that phone call goes.

[tazkenny]

Hmmmm,

Yeah, seems ambiguous doesn't it !!!

But then I suppose... that's the point !

I still read it that this (third party) extension ONLY applies to the Fire and theft covers (as it is specifically mentioned in the first paragraph), but I wouldn't stake my life on it !!!

I think I will need to make a call...

B...


Agreed. It clearly states the 10K & 3K figures apply to third party policies. If they say something different on the phone I too would be interested. EBike & ECar policy holder !
Did notice the Comprehensive does not cover parts stolen from the bike... so IF somebody stole your fairings forinstance you would be fucked. That being said it's not very likely (I hope)

[Marcus]

Maybe last weekends moment has something to do with it.



What happened?

[clarkey]

Swann do anything , there a pretty good and common provider:confused1:

[jasonbw]

Swann didn't cover rider training when I called them 6 months ago, is this a recent change?

[clarkey]

Swann didn't cover rider training when I called them 6 months ago, is this a recent change?

Was 2yr ago , first css i had them approve and email me confirmation they would as it was rider training and a certain someone had signed off with Shan...s and I wanted them to match it-I gave them both dates and it was ok..Never had an issue though I never took it for granted after Turtles xperience. Havent tried since

[jasonbw]

cool, maybe the person on the phone got it wrong for me, theres hope !!!!

[clarkey]

cool, maybe the person on the phone got it wrong for me, theres hope !!!!

This was 2yr ago, Can Brouggy not gain the similar requirement to Stay Upright ??

[jasonbw]

Stay Upright as CSS are the same in that they're not an M.A. governed event, ECRD and CB schools are M.A. governed. Insurance companys seem to always state any event run under a governing body (such as M.A.) is not covered. Leading me to believe that Stay Upright and CSS should be in the same boat insurance wise.