Honda's next generation transmission

[Captain]

Along with confirming production of the 2010 Honda V4, the company announced that it is developing a dual clutch transmission for use in its motorcycles. Currently called the Next Generation Transmission, it supposedly delivers faster, smoother, more efficient shifts that create less of a disruption in the power delivery. To your layperson's eyes, this looks identical to Audi's DSG transmission, widely considered the best automated manual in the world.

Honda hasn't said which models the transmission will be used on, nor when it will enter production. An educated guess would place it in that 2010 V4 model; not just because the two announcements share a press release, but because that bike is likely to be a high-specification motorcycle that places an emphasis on new technology enabling peerless on-road performance rather than simply following parameters laid down by international race classes.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Honda_DSG_1.jpg

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Honda_DSG_2.jpg

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Honda_DSG_3.jpg

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Honda_DSG_4.jpg

This is why I fail to accept criticism of Honda; It might not be as flashy as the euro models, but they have led the market in so many ways with so many technological advancements - the latest is to bring ABS to the masses and now this ... not to mention the many great bikes over the years. They have well and truly earned their stripes IMO.
:mod_smilie_rockwoot

We're yet to see whether this is a good thing or not of course, not every move is perfect ... that's the risk a leading company must have the balls to take.

[tazkenny]

While I am impressed with engineering technology (beeing an engineer) I can't see the need for this. I can change gear as quick as I can think at the moment, I have never known anybody to have a gearbox failure either. If the more efficient power transfer means more power, then power to Honda, otherwise why bother.
On a more possitive note, Captain, you really are the most amazing info and picture finder on the internet.

Appologies If I am missing something, beer is flowing ;)

I think criticism of Honda come from the dependable nature of them. While this is good, somehow on a bike it seems boring. I bet your bike is 100x better to ride than my old ZX636, but the Kwak had attitude. I would say Honda is the best Automotive engineering company out there.

[Captain]

Where's my beer?
I'm at home, my youngest is not well again ...

[tazkenny]

Ah bugger man. Hope the little un gets well soon.

[RIPPERTON]

Lets see if we can figure out how this thing will actually operate.
If you are accelerating in 2nd and you want to upshift, you lift the gearstick (without pulling the clutch lever) and 3rd engages while its clutch is still disengaged, then as you let the gearstick back down to its rest position the 3rd gear clutch engages at the same time as the 2nd gear clutch disengages and you have a seamless power transmission from 2nd to 3rd.

[Wattie]

it will probably go into the VFR or ST1300 or something. to compete with The FJR's auto.

if its not in moto GP i couldnt see it going into their supersupersports bike.

[Dr freedom]

Audi had massive issues with DSG at first. Alas DSG shifts faster than the box in a Ferrari now..

[unclewal]

i suspect this will be on the luxo fat cat models and will be a bike a tourer of some form, whats the point of this gear box if you have to manually use a clutch, i would rate a paddle system on a bike, that would be uber cool, kind of cheating but fun still the same

[RIPPERTON]

whats the point of this gear box if you have to manually use a clutch,

You dont have to use the clutch to shift.
With this system you could get away without any kind of clutch lever on the bike.
Take off from stand still could be automatic as well.
Both clutches are operated by oil pressure acting on pistons exactly like an automatic tranny in a car. There are no springs like we have in our clutches.
At stand still, when the engine revs are brought up, oil pressure to 1st gear clutch would be raised gradually causing it to engage slowly.
This could also have a slipper function. On downshift the engaging clutch could receive reduced oil pressure causing it to slip

[KTM_Paul]

they have led the market in so many ways with so many technological advancements - the latest is to bring ABS to the masses and now this


I would have thought BMW had ABS on a significant amount of it's product range before Honda did? :confused1:

[Captain]

I think criticism of Honda come from the dependable nature of them. While this is good, somehow on a bike it seems boring. I bet your bike is 100x better to ride than my old ZX636, but the Kwak had attitude. I would say Honda is the best Automotive engineering company out there.
I must admit mate that there is some truth to that, however my experience is that it get lumped in the 'japanese' category, and is criticized for that alone ... whereas I consider Honda a step above, given what they have contributed to motorcycling world-wide. Imagine you're a senior Honda engineer, you're working on leading-edge technology, standing on the shoulders of the giants that have there before you; you release a technical work of art .... and some motorcycle rider dismisses it as 'japanese rubbish'? I get annoyed from that perspective. Do you know what I mean?


I would have thought BMW had ABS on a significant amount of it's product range before Honda did? :confused1:
That's why I added "to the masses" to my quote :ayyy:

[oz r1]

I must admit mate that there is some truth to that, however my experience is that it get lumped in the 'japanese' category, and is criticized for that alone ... whereas I consider Honda a step above, given what they have contributed to motorcycling world-wide. Imagine you're a senior Honda engineer, you're working on leading-edge technology, standing on the shoulders of the giants that have there before you; you release a technical work of art .... and some motorcycle rider dismisses it as 'japanese rubbish'? I get annoyed from that perspective. Do you know what I mean?


That's why I added "to the masses" to my quote :ayyy:

Well i'm with you captain :ayyy:the funny thing is the " jap crap " saying comes from these guys that ride dinosaurs like harleys and the european bike owner that wish they to could have the speed and reliabilty of the so called "jap crap" bikes without having to have at least 200 cc more to just match the power out put of the jap in line bikes. Honda through auto and motor cycle manufacturing , racing and development often come up with leading edge technology. I am always baffled as to why ducati bark so much about the 1098 , 1198 superbikes and winning , i'm sure if the jap bikes are allowed to increase capacity to match ,there would be no contest. sorry some content of topic.

[Dr freedom]

Yamahas are blessed with some of Rossi's knowledge if you put it that way capn .. speaking of steps above that is :)

From what Ive read, every manufactuer has a Honda history type story.. they all do good things.

[stetto]

This is similar to semi auto gearboxes in race cars, and some road cars. The Gear above and below are always lined up ready for the next shift. Or am i way off the mark?

[Captain]

From what Ive read, every manufactuer has a Honda history type story.. they all do good things.

+1 mate, and I can appreciate the beauty of the machinery in many brands. I'm not the one with the blinkered 'brand loyalty' :ayyy:
Just yesterday I came across this HD with a supercharger; OK, not my choice of ride but you should have seen it. Not only, but you shold have seen the look in the eyes of the rider - anything that brings such joy cannot be easily dimissed, not unless we are so totally unable to look outside our own perspective.

[Specs]

Well i'm with you captain :ayyy:the funny thing is the " jap crap " saying comes from these guys that ride dinosaurs like harleys and the european bike owner that wish they to could have the speed and reliabilty of the so called "jap crap" bikes without having to have at least 200 cc more to just match the power out put of the jap in line bikes. Honda through auto and motor cycle manufacturing , racing and development often come up with leading edge technology. I am always baffled as to why ducati bark so much about the 1098 , 1198 superbikes and winning , i'm sure if the jap bikes are allowed to increase capacity to match ,there would be no contest. sorry some content of topic.

well Jap Crap is good crap :dancesmiley:

[Dr freedom]

People who tease others for Jap cars & bikes forget they have a fck off mega sized Sony Bravias in their loungerooms.
Japs rip when it comes to manufacutering.

[Zee]

Also control monitoring that keeps the products consistent in reliability.

[Naked Twin]

I drove a Passat with DSG recently. VW tried to tell me it was a clutchless manual.

Don't see the need for them, but then I like to drive a manual. Honda maybe at the forefront of technology sometimes but this is "japcrap":stirthepot:

Nick

[oz r1]

This is similar to semi auto gearboxes in race cars, and some road cars. The Gear above and below are always lined up ready for the next shift. Or am i way off the mark?
Well if so our toyota orion's auto is this type . the gear change under power is amazing also the manual shift is also great as a mate found out when we lined up together , he has a vx ss ute 5.7 ltr auto and i got him of the lights and put a car lenght on him on a 1/4 mile .

[Col]

our bikes will drive themselves soon

[RIPPERTON]

Actually this system is probly only going as far as cars and maybe Touring bikes and will never be seen in a sports bike because of its contradictory design philosophy.
That is, what this system does is make a perfect race shift,
so you can really only warrant putting it into race bike (or sports bike)
but, it involves a lot of extra hardware and sport bikes already being too heavy as they are, cant afford all that extra steel in the gearbox. You would need either 2 big clutches the same size as we have now or 1 big clutch and 2 small ones.
Lots of kg's