cleaning chains. Wd40 or not to WD40?

[dilbee]

OK the old debate here. WD40 with cleaning chains.
Found this forum about using the stuff. Some very interesting things said besides just what WD40 is good for or should say may not be.:confused1:

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/wd40.htm

I think its ok if its a quick spray on just so you can wipe off grit easily of ya chain before you lube it. I like to use chain wax for the lube.

What do thers think about WD40 and what they use to clean and lube chains?

[Turtle]

OK the old debate here. WD40 with cleaning chains.
Found this forum about using the stuff. Some very interesting things said besides just what WD40 is good for or should say may not be.:confused1:

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/wd40.htm

I think its ok if its a quick spray on just so you can wipe off grit easily of ya chain before you lube it. I like to use chain wax for the lube.

What do thers think about WD40 and what they use to clean and lube chains?

kero...

[_chado77]

mate i hate to say this but i refuse to lube the ducks chain.. just keeps it cleaner:mad::lmao:

[jasonbw]

Kero.. its the only stuff Yamaha state in their service manual and it seems to be agreed upon here.

But the important part is to point out cleaning is important... I believe the old line where they say the grit you get trapped in the chain oil does the majority of the chain wear, not the lack of lubrication! (Having said that, its obvious you'll ruin a good chain by not lubricating it, it'll overheat and kill its internal rubber that holds its own lubrication.)

[Captain]

I guess it depends on what type of rubber the o-rings are made of; I have read of enough marine mechanics that don't like WD40 as they believe it breaks down rubber hoses over time ...

Jason, as a general guideline how often would you clean the chain with kero? I lubricate it with the spray stuff every 1,000 km or so (more often with track days), but as it is the chain only gets cleaned by the service mechanic - every 6,000 km. Is that enough?

[jasonbw]

they dont like Kero ??? Kero breaking down rubber? I didnt think Kero reacted to any rubber!

[Captain]

Sorry, I meant they don't like WD40 - edited.

[spotcom]

No, WD40 won't break down the o-rings. (By the way, WD40 is very nearly kero...)

I use WD40 for the chain, and the rear wheel, and in fact, anything that has grease or oil. It works a treat.

I wash the chain with it quite thoroughly, then dry it right off with a clean rag, and then apply a little lube (Shell), using a rag to hold the chain & pick up any overspray. Then I use that rag to rub all the excess off (and at the same time, work the lube right in).

I then clean the rear wheel (after it's WD40 treatment) with Vuplex.

The above treatment is fast, and very effective.

[tazkenny]

No, WD40 won't break down the o-rings. (By the way, WD40 is very nearly kero...)

I use WD40 for the chain, and the rear wheel, and in fact, anything that has grease or oil. It works a treat.

I wash the chain with it quite thoroughly, then dry it right off with a clean rag, and then apply a little lube (Shell), using a rag to hold the chain & pick up any overspray. Then I use that rag to rub all the excess off (and at the same time, work the lube right in).

I then clean the rear wheel (after it's WD40 treatment) with Vuplex.

The above treatment is fast, and very effective.



Read this. I have read in motorbike mags that WD40 may not be good for bike chains, but this seems to contradict that. Good shout spotcom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

[Turtle]

Kero is fine to use on Air Filters also, it doesn't break down Rubber of Foam....

[jasonbw]

Ahh understood, thanks Capt'n, I would guess my clean's would be around 1000klm nowadays, I used to do that every few weeks but have left it longer and longer and I don't seem to pick up much crud even though its my daily ride!

[Captain]

Read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

If I read the right part it's based on claims by the WD40 manufacturer. Personally I'd at least consider comments made by marine mechanics with decades of experience behind them. Enough of a doubt in my mind to make me use kero instead.
Also it is wikipedia ...


Ahh understood, thanks Capt'n, I would guess my clean's would be around 1000klm nowadays, I used to do that every few weeks but have left it longer and longer and I don't seem to pick up much crud even though its my daily ride!

That often? hmmm ....

[zRoYz]

Humm it's like everything in this world some agree some disagree, just like the this will give you cancer debate & then a year later another specialist says what gives you cancer before is now good for you.

I use WD40 to clean my chain & have for along time but when finished I wipe chain down with a rag so really not much WD40 is left. I then use chain lube & have never had a chain fail except for normal wear.

You really only need to clean your chain allot if you frequent dirt roads.

[Turtle]

Humm it's like everything in this world some agree some disagree, just like the this will give you cancer debate & then a year later another specialist says what gives you cancer before is now good for you.

I use WD40 to clean my chain & have for along time but when finished I wipe chain down with a rag so really not much WD40 is left. I then use chain lube & have never had a chain fail except for normal wear.

When did you stop using "Oil Of Turkey" to lube ya chain ???

[zRoYz]

When did you stop using "Oil Of Turkey" to lube ya chain ???

when I discovered buying WD40 on the company account for use on the bike was cheaper :)

[jasonbw]

That often? hmmm ....

1000klm isn't very often really.. to me it takes a lot of time

[Captain]

Anyhow I should add that any concerns I have ever heard about relate to repeated use over many years. Certainly if the stuff caused immediate problems it would be noticed by all, and that's not the case. As chains don't generally last for decades, it might not be an issue at all. Here's something that might be of interest:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-619424.html

[jasonbw]

ohh, a trap for young players (or platers), don't try to hold a cloth onto your chain with the bike running and in gear (obviously with the bike on a race stand). I know it looks like a good fast way to clean or lube a chain but I can promise you, I know two guys who have lost a finger to this technique even though they swore they were super careful!

It'll only take a minute to manually pull the wheel or chain around a couple of revolutions.

[Turtle]

when I discovered buying WD40 on the company account for use on the bike was cheaper :)

Ahh.....more Turkey for you then ???

[Turtle]

ohh, a trap for young players (or platers), don't try to hold a cloth onto your chain with the bike running and in gear (obviously with the bike on a race stand). I know it looks like a good fast way to clean or lube a chain but I can promise you, I know two guys who have lost a finger to this technique even though they swore they were super careful!

It'll only take a minute to manually pull the wheel or chain around a couple of revolutions.

Lubing ya chain with the bike in gear and wheel turning under the engines power is pure Stupidity.........you should always turn the wheel by hand.....fingers wont stop a wheel if they go into the sorocket and chain........BIG NO NO....

[spotcom]

Yes, I agree with zRoYz - if you have the chain clean to begin with, and not excessively lubed, it stays clean for quite a while. When I first bought the bike, it had all this white shit on the chain that sprayed everywhere and made a real mess.

The "Clean with WD40" then "Dry" then "Lube & rub hard to get rid of the excess" method works well, and makes sure that the chain stays in top shape.

:edit: Ouch! Who'd lube their bike with the motor running & in gear! Surprised that you've heard of TWO people doing that and losing fingers.... common sense would tell you that it's a dumb thing to do!

[jasonbw]

Sure would!!! Pity eh... :(

[tazkenny]

And just to be safe turn the wheel backwards so there is no trap point for your fingers - although it is just commen sense.

Just realised never seen anybody with on e of these here. Had one before they work great and never had to clean or adjust my chain in a whole year with it.

http://www.scottoiler.com/

[Captain]

A pretty good test: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350310

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/IMGP9508.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/IMGP9519.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/Oring_final.jpg

Final results for all soaked O-rings
Results of study:
All the chemical had an effect on the strength levels. Based on the reduction in strength after 15 day continuous exposure, it appears WD-40 reduced and had a detrimental effect on the the strength of the O-ring (20% reduction after 15x days). Whereas, the Kerosene reduced the strength level by 12%. More rigorous investigation is required, however based on these results I’ll be using Kerosene to clean my X ring chain.

- This test appears to have focussed on the deterioration in the 'strenght' of the o-ring, and I don't know how important that is. What is the main use of the o-ring?
- I also came across another test, that commented on the problem being an additive used in the aerosol, and that the problem lies in that. If you buy the non-aerosol version, it's OK. Don't know how true that is.

[tazkenny]

Good find Captain. Although I'm not sure what relevence the tensile strength of o-rings has to with chain lifespan. Obviously we don't want the o-rings to fail, theirt purpose as far as I am aware is to keep shit out of the parts which bind together and keep them lubricated as long as possible.

As a development engineer I'm often asked - how relevent is the experiment.

This thread is on fire man !

[dilbee]

Yes, I agree with zRoYz - if you have the chain clean to begin with, and not excessively lubed, it stays clean for quite a while. When I first bought the bike, it had all this white shit on the chain that sprayed everywhere and made a real mess.

The "Clean with WD40" then "Dry" then "Lube & rub hard to get rid of the excess" method works well, and makes sure that the chain stays in top shape.

:edit: Ouch! Who'd lube their bike with the motor running & in gear! Surprised that you've heard of TWO people doing that and losing fingers.... common sense would tell you that it's a dumb thing to do!

i agree as spray wd on the chain and that way helps rubbing with a rag to get all the grease and grit off. Once all the grit etc is off and also by rubbing with a rag to make it dry. Give it a good coating of chain wax and then a light rub wo get get some excess wax off as not to have it flick off and make a mess.
Just took me about a hour cleaning mine but im fussy and also flossed the chain too with a rag. Gotta keep those gold chains shinney.:ayyy:

[dilbee]

This test shows soaking the rubber. I quickly spin the wheel and gets about a quick coat or so of wd on the chain and then gets a good rub down with a rag. So really there would be hardly or if not any wd left before i lubbed with a chain lube.

[spotcom]

I guess another good question is, "what's the life-span of a chain"? How many kays on average would a chain last? And is there any noticeable difference between the lifespan of a chain lubed with kero compared with WD40, or for that matter, one that hadn't been lubed at all?

(There is an argument that it really doesn't need lubing at all because it's all sealed with o-rings...)

[Turtle]

Julian where do you find this stuff ??

[Captain]

google mostly .... you simply need to be creative with the keywords.

[zRoYz]

A pretty good test: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350310

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/IMGP9508.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/IMGP9519.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/klm4755/o_ring/Oring_final.jpg

Final results for all soaked O-rings
Results of study:
All the chemical had an effect on the strength levels. Based on the reduction in strength after 15 day continuous exposure, it appears WD-40 reduced and had a detrimental effect on the the strength of the O-ring (20% reduction after 15x days). Whereas, the Kerosene reduced the strength level by 12%. More rigorous investigation is required, however based on these results I’ll be using Kerosene to clean my X ring chain.

- This test appears to have focussed on the deterioration in the 'strenght' of the o-ring, and I don't know how important that is. What is the main use of the o-ring?
- I also came across another test, that commented on the problem being an additive used in the aerosol, and that the problem lies in that. If you buy the non-aerosol version, it's OK. Don't know how true that is.

that test is a waste of someones effort because you don't leave any of those products soaking on your chain for major periods of time so oring will really only have exposure for time your cleaning chain which at most is 30mins. orings within a chain are also under compression so you wont get saturation of chemicals like that test. even a oring that is designed to seal a certain product once used & left out in the air will swell & deteriorate.

the oring in any chain will more or less out last the chain because chains are replaced due to stretching which really has nothing to do with oring. you will know if a oring wears out because your chain will rattle or you will feel sideways movement between the links.

[Turtle]

that test is a waste of someones effort because you don't leave any of those products soaking on your chain for major periods of time so oring will really only have exposure for time your cleaning chain which at most is 30mins. orings within a chain are also under compression so you wont get saturation of chemicals like that test. even a oring that is designed to seal a certain product once used & left out in the air will swell & deteriorate.

the oring in any chain will more or less out last the chain because chains are replaced due to stretching which really has nothing to do with oring. you will know if a oring wears out because your chain will rattle or you will feel sideways movement between the links.

+1...

[Captain]

that test is a waste of someones effort because you don't leave any of those products soaking on your chain for major periods of time so oring will really only have exposure for time your cleaning chain which at most is 30mins. orings within a chain are also under compression so you wont get saturation of chemicals like that test. even a oring that is designed to seal a certain product once used & left out in the air will swell & deteriorate.

the oring in any chain will more or less out last the chain because chains are replaced due to stretching which really has nothing to do with oring. you will know if a oring wears out because your chain will rattle or you will feel sideways movement between the links.

Fair comments zRoYz, but I still think there's value in the test; The concern with WD40 (and others) is the effect they have on the o-rings over an extended period of time. The process used in the test is an attempt to accelerate any such effects. No-one is suggesting that the chain will fall apart in a week, if it did then we'd all know about it and that would be that.
From that perspective, you could use just about anything to clean the chain, and it would probably outlast the life of the chain anyway, as other bits will probably 'wear' at a faster rate than the o-rings anyhow, and the chain will need replacement long before the o-rings fall apart (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I think this test was more to address the ongoing question of whether WD40 (and others) have any determental effect; IMO that has been proven.

Similarly, whilst the test is on the strenght of the o-rings alone (and I don't really know what the o-rings are for) it still gives an indication that 'something' is happening to the structure of the rubber. Even if the job of the o-rings is only to keep the links apart (and as such their linear strenght is somewhat irrelevant) you'd still be worried if you saw one fall apart in your hands, don't you think?

In reality, it probably makes little difference either way, but given the little I have learnt if I find myself about to clean the chain - and there's a bottle of Kero and one of WD40 on my shelf I think I'd go for the Kero.

(as many people don't clean their chains at all, it would be good to compare using WD40 vs doing nothing .... and on that I'm guessing WD40 would come out on top)
:ayyy:

[zRoYz]

You can't just use anything because the oring mat if dry's out will crack which is the main problem, solvents can cause this which is why there are so many different types of rubber mat used to the point really aggressive solvents need orings made of teflon. WD40 like Kero is more or less light oil so tends to not dry out the oring. What that test is showing is if you leave said oring (doesn't even say mat oring is made from) in a certain product the effects it has but if you clean your chain the cleaning agent is more or less diluted when proper chain lube is applied when finished & that test doesn't do that.

You don't use WD40 or Kero as the chain lubricant so once chain clean you are more or less recoating oring with the chain lube. For a oring on a chain to fail it really has to crack completely through & fall out which in that test even with brake fluid the orings haven't done that so think your safe with whatever you use so long as you lube chain when finished.

[Jonny DeWog]

Fair comments zRoYz, but I still think there's value in the test; The concern with WD40 (and others) is the effect they have on the o-rings over an extended period of time. ...
I think this test was more to address the ongoing question of whether WD40 (and others) have any determental effect; IMO that has been proven........

Ah - the old WD40 debate!

Aside from flaws in the amateur experiment (he held the various fluids in a polypropylene / polyethylene / PLASTIC pill box {WTF?!}, which itself can be degraded by the various fluids, not to mention permeability issues between the dividers.....someone goes to all that bother yet didn't think to use separate glass containers! Also which o-ring did he test? A standard fluid coupler type?{carbon rubber} or the more appropriate silicone or nitrile rubber types as used on high preformance chains???) some points to consider....

Tests like the one above are bogus to our needs as the o-rings are not used in tensile stress. Chains are factory pre-lubed at the roller/pin interface (think sealed-for-life bearings) as the o-rings are basically there to seal this in and prevent dirt getting in. As such a better test would be abrasion resistance over time under high speed cycles.

When we lube our chains what we are doing is providing a lubricated surface between the outer roller ring (in the middle of the chain) and the front/rear sprockets. We do this regularly as both those parts are exposed and subject to loss (fling-off). In theory our lube won't get into the inner parts of the links because of the O-rings. Over time however, as the o-rings wear due to abrasion the inner bits get more exposed, lose lubricant and gain dirt , and chain link degradation begins.

So, according to our amateur scientist above, A chain soaked in WD-40 over a couple of weeks is 8% weaker in tensile strength than a Kero-soaked chain...so what!

The question should have been, which is the better protector in wear resistance?. I'm guessing that Kero doesn't approach WD-40 on this as lubrication properties of kero aren't great (viscosities and laminate-sheer aside, Kero has a very low evaporative point and simply won't hang around like WD-40 does)......

Given that cleaning chains, with Wd-40 or kero, is a 30 min job at best, done a couple of times a year, any chemical degradation incurred won't come near the worklife of the chain itself, so is probably more academic than practical.

JdW

FWIW: RK chains, and the Ducati owner's manuals, both recommend WD-40 as chain cleaning fluid.....

[Captain]

So, according to our amateur scientist above, A chain soaked in WD-40 over a couple of weeks is 8% weaker in tensile strength than a Kero-soaked chain...so what!
So what? ... it shows that WD40 has a determental effect on the composition of the o-rings, that's what - this is the sole purpose of the test and what the topic is all about. I am happy to be proven wrong, that's the way we learn, I have no 'face to save' etc, but you're simply ignoring evidence. Do you still want to spray it all over your boats' engine?


The question should have been, which is the better protector in wear resistance?. I'm guessing that Kero doesn't approach WD-40 on this as lubrication properties of kero aren't great (viscosities and laminate-sheer aside)
This test was purely to determine if the chemicals had any negative effect on the rubber. I also think that the test was amateurish, of course; I would have like to see a microscope picture of the surface of the rings, for instance; it probably has a greater effect on the performance than tensile strenght.
Anyhow we're not talking about these chemicals as lubricants, purely as cleaning agents.


Kero has a very low evaporative point and simply won't hang around like WD-40 does)......
If WD40 does indeed 'hang around' for longer than kero, that's another reason NOT to use it, as it will dilute the lubrication you will apply after you have finished cleaning the chain.

See this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Why-WD40-Should-Never-Be-Used-on-Your-Bike-Chain/ I am aware it's bicycle related, and it's a comment on lubrication rather than cleaning, but it is relevant to this last comment.

Sorry mate, I see we will not agree on WD40 ... :lmao:

Good discussion :ayyy:

[*Oggy*]

Ah - the old WD40 debate!

FWIW: RK chains, and the Ducati owner's manuals, both recommend WD-40 as chain cleaning fluid.....

Ducati quote lube every 50kms or 2 months (whichever is longer)....:ayyy:

Bottom line for me is Kero works out way cheaper than WD40 to Kero is my choice of cleanser..

[Jonny DeWog]

So what? ... it shows that WD40 has a determental effect on the composition of the o-rings, that's what - this is the sole purpose of the test and what the topic is all about..... you're simply ignoring evidence. Do you still want to spray it all over your boats' engine?


This test was purely to determine if the chemicals had any negative effect on the rubber.......Anyhow we're not talking about these chemicals as lubricants, purely as cleaning agents.


If WD40 does indeed 'hang around' for longer than kero, that's another reason NOT to use it, as it will dilute the lubrication you will apply after you have finished cleaning the chain.

See this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Why-WD40-Should-Never-Be-Used-on-Your-Bike-Chain/ I am aware it's bicycle related, and it's a comment on lubrication rather than cleaning, but it is relevant to this last comment.

Sorry mate, I see we will not agree on WD40 ... :lmao:

Good discussion :ayyy:


I think you're getting off-topic here: We're talking about WD-40/kero as a cleaning agent, not lubricant. My point was that abrasion resistance, not tensile strength, is what we're aiming for as an ideal. To that end, it may well be that WD-40 aids in wear resistance of chain o-rings better than kerosene. The bicycle video is completely irrelevant as it is one man's opinion about the failings of WD-40 as a high-speed metal lubricant for bicycle chains (which don't have o-rings, incidentally), and we certainly don't use either WD-40 nor kero for that purpose.

I admire people who try to conduct reasoned trials, I question pseudo-science passed off as fact. Even regarding "8% difference in tensile strength" between the WD-40 and kero soaked rings would be statistically insignificant on a single o-ring. Knowing a little about vulcanization of latex products there are frequently enough flaws in the rubber product that you would need to sample dozens of o-rings, in a controlled environment, to average out the results before making such a claim.

Yes, I still use WD-40 on the boat, though I now complement it with Silicone spray as it lasts 3-4 times longer (doesn't evaporate as easily). Though surprisingly silicone doesn't offer the same corrosion resistance to high-temp metals (?!) - it doesn't seem to hang on at higher temps!

Which brings me to another point: why not consider silicone sprays as a cleaning agent? Surely these are more compatible with the silicone-type X/W-rings in hi-po chains??? (which again, are not related to the fluid-lock carbon-rubber o-rings purported in the amateur "test")

JdW

[Jonny DeWog]

......If WD40 does indeed 'hang around' for longer than kero, that's another reason NOT to use it, as it will dilute the lubrication you will apply after you have finished cleaning the chain........



Sorry, forgot to address this in my above post (there are many points to digest).

Kerosene has a much much lower viscosity than WD-40 (which is thicker and 'oilier') so it's penetrative ability would be significantly greater past the O/X/W-ring seal than WD-40. Hence it's propensity to dilute the factory lube would, in theory, be greater.

I suspect that's why RK Chains / Ducati favour the thicker oilier WD-40 as the preferred cleaning agent.......What do other manufacturer's say???


JdW

[Johnny]

LMFAO, I never realised that cleaning and lubing a chain required a fucken degree :lmao:

[Turtle]

Seriously guys how can a topic such as lubing a Fucking Chain be so Indepth ???? For Fuck sake clean the thing with some Kero and put some chain lube onit !! Jesus.......

[zRoYz]

Seriously guys how can a topic such as lubing a Fucking Chain be so Indepth ???? For Fuck sake clean the thing with some Kero and put some chain lube onit !! Jesus.......

Jesus can't help he didn't need to clean his chains :)

[Turtle]

Jesus can't help he didn't need to clean his chains :)

It was an RK............."Blessed "series i believe.....

[zRoYz]

It was an RK............."Blessed "series i believe.....

yep there good for a flogging.

[Captain]

I think you're getting off-topic here: We're talking about WD-40/kero as a cleaning agent, not lubricant.
With all due respect I think you have not read my comments closely enough. I made that very point when you went off topic by discussing the lubricating qualities of WD40

JDW says: The question should have been, which is the better protector in wear resistance?. I'm guessing that Kero doesn't approach WD-40 on this as lubrication properties of kero aren't great



The bicycle video is completely irrelevant as it is one man's opinion about the failings of WD-40 as a high-speed metal lubricant for bicycle chains (which don't have o-rings, incidentally), and we certainly don't use either WD-40 nor kero for that purpose.
Again I must apologise but it's a little frustrating when one does not read closely. I clearly stated that the video was about bicylces and lubrication, and it's only purpose was to highight the comment made about WD40 washing away any lubrication should there be any residual left after you have finished cleaning your chain with it.



Which brings me to another point: why not consider silicone sprays as a cleaning agent? Surely these are more compatible with the silicone-type X/W-rings in hi-po chains??? (which again, are not related to the fluid-lock carbon-rubber o-rings purported in the amateur "test")
I have wondered the same thing, and I'm guessing that it's because silicone spray does not have the solvents ... the ones that do such a good job at cleaning (the same stuff that we're concerned about)
:lmao:

Enough already; I'm using kero and that's that

(Turtle you've seen nothing yet) :lmao:

[Johnny]

LOL, you guys sure you dont want to go into the E10 debate while your at it ? :lmao:
How about the good ol, "why dont riders nod anymore ? " one ??? :lmao:

[Turtle]

LOL, you guys sure you dont want to go into the E10 debate while your at it ? :lmao:
How about the good ol, "why dont riders nod anymore ? " one ??? :lmao:

I still Nod but hate not getting the Replied Nod........don't nod at Wankers on Choppers because they're too good to Nod back.....

[Jonny DeWog]

Seriously guys how can a topic such as lubing a Fucking Chain be so Indepth ???? For Fuck sake clean the thing with some Kero and put some chain lube onit !! Jesus.......

There's a good deal of history between the Captain and I on this matter, in fact I think it predates the entire Arab-Israeli Conflict.............

Luckily we're very good friends outside this arena! (just don't mention the war)

Now back to sport:

Captain: I did read your comments but couldn't work out if you were hedging your bets - on the one hand you were saying that my theory (on whether WD-40 offers any protection) damages O-rings by "lingering" around long enough to do whatever supposed damage it does ('...another reason not to use this..."), then found some cyclist's opinion stating the opposite ("WD-40 is not a lubricant" since it disappears and "leaves metal on metal" - quote*).....?????!!!!!:confused1::confused1::confu sed1:

My point was definitely not to use WD-40 as a chain lubricant, but whether or not it aids in any wear resistance to o-rings, which is the crucial factor here (not tensile strength as examined in the so-called trial:rules:).


:stirthepot:


JdW

*but apparently he claims WD-40 IS a strong solvent: ergo it must clean well then :)

BTW the o-rings are under compression between the plates, so tensile strength is even more irrelevant.

[Captain]

Ah OK, I get it. What the cyclist was saying was that WD40 will wash away any lubricant that might have been there ... so I am thinking that if you were to use WD40, and not dry the chain adequately (which I think would be difficult to do, you'd need compressed air at the very least) and then you apply the lubricant, what could happen is that the residual WD40 would dilute the lubricant down and possibly even make it drip / fling away. Does that not make sense?

What I'd like to know is which lubricant the mechanic uses; I always get the bike back with a shiny clean chain, and it has a lubricating clear coating on it. Looks and feels much better than the spray crap I use ...

Yes JdW is a good friend, no problem at all from my side, a healthy debate is good. I certainly learn from it (he won't admit it, but I'm sure he does too once in a while :lmao:)

:ayyy::ayyy::ayyy:

[Jonny DeWog]

....... I certainly learn from it (he won't admit it, but I'm sure he does too once in a while :lmao:)

:ayyy::ayyy::ayyy:

More often than not.......


JdW

[Jonny DeWog]

Sorry - I couldn't resist!

I'm researching rear shocks for my bike and was reading through the owner's PDF for Ohlins when I came across this (copied and pasted below) :


Inspection and maintenance
Clean the shock absorbers externally with a soft
detergent. Use compressed air. Lift the bump
rubber and clean the area below (Fig.17). Keep
the shock absorbers clean and always spray them
with oil (QS 14, WD40 or CRC 5-56 or simular).Inspection points (Fig.18):
1 Check ball joints
for possible excessive play.
2 Check the piston shaft
for leakage and damage
NOTE!
Make certain that your shock absorbers are
always filled with Öhlins High Performance
Suspension fluid.

Having "rubber" and "WD-40" appear on the same page of an Ohlins manual?....well, who am I to argue!


JdW :dancesmiley:

[Dr freedom]

Supercheap Auto> Fuches Chain Cleaner $15> Maxima Chain Wax $10> Dan Murphies> home.

[zRoYz]

this thread had enlightened me that cleaning you chain is far to dangerous so from now on my kids have to do it :lmao:

[Jonny DeWog]

this thread had enlightened me that cleaning you chain is far to dangerous so from now on my kids have to do it :lmao:

Me? - I'm going back to my Guzzi! life's so much simpler on a shaft-drive!

JdW

:)

[Wiccad]

Hmmm. Ok firstly yes I have skimmed this thread so if I've missed something relevant I'll own up to being a goose now.

That out of the way, the main concern for using wd-40 (or another equivelent like RP70) is the solvent naphtha petroleum, medium aliphatic. In the ULV form used in wd-40 its viscocity is allmost half that of comercial kerro (the version you get at Repco, woolies etc). This reduction in viscocity means wd40 is more prone to penetrating past the O/U/W/X rings and diluting the "sealed" lube behind said seals. Now if anyone here ever bothered to RTFI when putting on a new chain (RK dont advertise the use of wd40 on any RK chain I've owned, they specify against its use. Ducati, well who knows) their is a clear and purposefull requirement to lube a chain when its warm, but to clean a chain when cold. And to warm a chain after cleaning it but before lubing it. This is so the chain lube can penetrate the sides of the O/U/W/X rings and eleviate much of the friction that depletes them. Thermal expansion being the key to getting it right. I had this discussion many moons ago with my grandfather who was an aircraft engineer/motorcycle fanatic. WD40 was not allowed any where near any chain drives in aircraft for the same reason as above. That and fast changes in atmospheric pressures made chains even more vunerable to this type of damage. :dohsmiley:

[Captain]

Sorry - I couldn't resist!

That's the problem with this topic; you will find plenty of people recommending the stuff. At the same time there are plenty of others with first-hand experience who claim it damages rubber based products (just today I asked the diesel mechanic who used to repair the motor in my old Cavalier, and he said the same .... in his own eloquent words ... 'don't use that shit'). He's maybe 65, a marine diesel mechanic all his life. I'd say he knows a thing or two ...

[zRoYz]

That's the problem with this topic; you will find plenty of people recommending the stuff. At the same time there are plenty of others with first-hand experience who claim it damages rubber based products (just today I asked the diesel mechanic who used to repair the motor in my old Cavalier, and he said the same .... in his own eloquent words ... 'don't use that shit'). He's maybe 65, a marine diesel mechanic all his life. I'd say he knows a thing or two ...

That's the problem you ask so called experts & you will get a different answer everytime :lmao:

The thing is your not soaking the chain in the stuff you spray it on a rag & then pass the chain through that rag while you hold rag with your hand tight around chain. The amount of penetration to the oring is so little & the life of the chain is so low due to the stretching effect on a motorcycle your never going to have an effect on chain life. I mean just let your chain dry out once with not enough lube & you'll do 1 million more times the damage so forget to lube your chain after riding in the rain & then ride again you might as well clean your chain with petrol & a wire brush.

[dilbee]

believing old people sometimes is good but also the oldies are set in their ways with thought and think they know better but really they may not. Not saying he doesn't know this or not. Just saying how some old people think in their set ways. Who's to say that rubber back then was a different type of compound of rubber. Now days theres all sorts of matarials which are a lot different to make in the old days.
Now i guess the thread turns to a different view as to what sort of rubber is used in chains and has rubber changed ober the years to what the older people have come across?

[Captain]

The thing is your not soaking the chain in the stuff you spray it on a rag & then pass the chain through that rag while you hold rag with your hand tight around chain.

Why didn't you say so to begin with? Like I always say, 'the devil is in the details' .... I was thinking of soaking the chain right through, using a brush to scrub it etc. Spray it on a rag and pass it through the rag? That changes everything (but I don't see how it can clean very well).

[zRoYz]

Why didn't you say so to begin with? Like I always say, 'the devil is in the details' .... I was thinking of soaking the chain right through, using a brush to scrub it etc. Spray it on a rag and pass it through the rag? That changes everything (but I don't see how it can clean very well).

I do my chain often so there doesn't get much build up you mainly want to remove the built up grit that has stuck onto the chain lube which forms more on the outer surface. Chain lube for road bikes uses a molly based bond so it doesn't flick off where dirt bike lube doesn't because the dirt just cakes on & sticks which is reason you see dedicated road lube & mx lube. You don't really want to go scrubbing between the links on a oring chain because your more likely to do damage to oring from the scrubbing more than the type of cleaner you use.

You can also damage your chain with a direct water jet sprayed at the chain links because the water can get past the orings & sit inside links & form rust so I tend to stay away from scrubbing & just do the rag option very often. If you own a bike that is duel purpose so it see's dirt riding then you might be more inclined to give it a good scrubbing but the days of removing your chain are few & far between as the most common chain joiner is rivet type so you can't take chain off the bike. You will find a mostly external clean is good enough as any major grit around oring once outer grit removed will fling out.

Even if you use kero just try the rag option & you will see for yourself it does a good job you do need to soak the rag allot & then change to a clean one for final cleaning without any kero etc.

There is a very important part that people tend to miss when cleaning there chain & doesn't need to be done as often but you need to remove front sprocket cover & clean all the grit that has stuck itself there over time.

[Turtle]

Leave it alone Roy............step away from the Chain Thread.....

[zRoYz]

Leave it alone Roy............step away from the Chain Thread.....

backing away slowly...........think I need a turkey to cure my addiction :beer:

[jasonbw]

suprised this didn't degrade into lubricating O rings Turtle style!

[Turtle]

suprised this didn't degrade into lubricating O rings Turtle style!

Why use "Lube" its only gonna have shit stick to it.........not shit as in "Shit"

[dilbee]

i remember once when detailing a bike when i took off the front sproket cover to find that there was so much gunkt hat inside was solid full of th stuff. :mad:There was only a gap where th chain spun through. Yeeah not only does the rear need cleaning sometimes but dont forget the front sproket as well.

[Jonny DeWog]

......... (RK dont advertise the use of wd40 on any RK chain I've owned, they specify against its use. .....)

Really? - check out:

http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/faq.html

Also, as far as I can ascertain, kerosene is listed with a viscosity of 2.1-2.2 cP (centipoise), which is less than half that of WD-40 (5cP). The Naptha products (the exact formula is a trade secret) appear to be around 10%w/v by best estimates, so I still hold that kerosene is far more likely to penetrate those o/x/w/-rings than Wd-40....... But jeez, we're really splitting hairs now......


My brain hurts.:hatter:.....

JdW

[Captain]

Also, as far as I can ascertain, kerosene is listed with a viscosity of 2.1-2.2 cP (centipoise), which is less than half that of WD-40 (5cP). The Naptha products (the exact formula is a trade secret) appear to be around 10%w/v by best estimates, so I still hold that kerosene is far more likely to penetrate those o/x/w/-rings than Wd-40



UPDATE: WD-40 and Motorcycle Chains

wBW Visitor "R.S." sent us some interesting information on the use of WD-40 on motorcycle chains:

"Saw your article on using WD-40 for chains and you asked for evidence of potential harm that WD-40 can do, so am attaching a photo. This photo is of a bearing surface from an airplane.

This is a ball and races in a sealed bearing that had been subjected to regular use of WD-40 for a year or two. The grease was NOT cleaned out before taking this photo - there simply is no grease and the brownish tint is really rust.

The ball had grooves (visible) and was shaped like a potato chip. The races had not evenly worn (see sectioned edge) and were rutted in spots, although neither shows too well.

We learned that WD-40 is really good for the light uses that it was intended for and that needs to be emphasized. However, it is largely a penetrant, which will do just that!

Once it penetrates into the sealed area, it dissolves the petroleum out of the grease, leaving the clay binders. What's left in the bearing is essentially dirt that cakes up, causing the balls to skid. Without the petroleum, the bearing will also rust.

The reason that kerosene and diesel fuel are still favorites and recommended by the chain people is that while both can be penetrants, they are a thicker petroleum and just what the O-rings are trying to seal against. Of course, gasoline cleans about the same, but with thinner viscosity and better penetrating power. In all honesty, I still use gas to clean (I'm lazy), but don't beat the bike often, regularly measure for linkage stretch and sprocket wear, and re-lube on every other tank of gas."

Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains. Does anyone know of a better product that is specifically designed for cleaning a motorcycle chain without dissolving the grease behind the O-rings?

Then there were some general comments along the line that you can use WD40, but only in the way zRoYz stated (rag).

[Jonny DeWog]

UPDATE: WD-40 and Motorcycle Chains

... This photo is of a bearing surface from an airplane.

This is a ball and races in a sealed bearing that had been subjected to regular use of WD-40 for a year or two. The grease was NOT cleaned out before taking this photo - there simply is no grease and the brownish tint is really rust.

The ball had grooves (visible) and was shaped like a potato chip. The races had not evenly worn (see sectioned edge) and were rutted in spots, although neither shows too well.......

Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains.....

Then there were some general comments along the line that you can use WD40, but only in the way zRoYz stated (rag).

I know they've been slack lately, but I sure hope Qantas doesn't take up this practice!!!

I think you'd find that if they'd subjected the sealed ball bearing the 'regular' doses of either kerosene, or diesel, or petrol, or turps..... the results would be exactly the same (all are solvents of grease).

Seal-for-life bearings are not supposed to be cleaned in petroleum solvents, period!! (the plastic or metal discs don't compress as o/x/w-rings do, their only job is to keep the thick grease in for the working life of the rollers).

To compare a sealed bearing failure (especially one subjected to 'regular' attacks by any petroleum-based solvent) to supposedly damaging chains by cleaning is drawing a very long bow indeed.

The moral of this story is you can't compare apples with oranges.....

JdW

[Captain]

JdW I think you've missed the point ... and I even bolded it to make it obvious for you. We were discussing viscosity if I recall. The moral of the story is that you change direction when facts don't show what you like.


Hey zRoYz, haven't you got any old R11 laying around? 'cos I'm guessing it's the hydrocarbon that's really doing the cleaning ...

:lmao:

[Johnny]

You wont get 7 pages on netrider on how to lube a chain, 7 pages, on Rats, to lube a fucking chain ? FFS :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[BAZ77]

I think the jury is still out on whether ot not using WD40 is a god or bad idea.

Here is a procedure for chain maintenace from the RK website..FYI...

http://www.linkint.com.au/libraries/images/products_img_pdf/rk_chain.pdf


Also, some tests and discussions ..


http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motorcycle-chain-cleaner/

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/

[Dr freedom]

the devil is in the details
hey man .. I stopped picking on him ..oh wait, wrong thread :lmao:

[Captain]

JdW, looks like we're living parrallel lives with a few others out there :lmao:

This was a comment posted in response to the article on the damage to the bearings:

…you may want to give some more thought to the chain lube vs. WD40 debate. Just because an aerospace engineer states that it will penetrate O-rings doesn’t mean this happens in the real world. In fact I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. His comparison/illustration is apples/oranges to our application.

And this was the author's reply:

Thanks for your comments, they will surely add fuel to the WD-40 controversy! Note that R.S. in the Motorcycle Chain Lube article (who, by the way, is who is a chief airplane crash investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board), did not claim that WD-40 dissolved the O-rings. The claim was made that WD-40 "is largely a penetrant" and may dissolve the grease behind the O-rings, just as it has dissolved the grease behind the seal on the sealed bearing shown in the photo. My own feeling is that this is more of a valid comparison than not...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[ST Kurt]

You wont get 7 pages on netrider on how to lube a chain, 7 pages, on Rats, to lube a fucking chain ? FFS :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

surely this thread can continue, we haven't started page 3 yet...

Personally I clean my chain with metho and an air compressor. It get's my chain nice and clean.

[Jonny DeWog]

JdW, looks like we're living parrallel lives with a few others out there
:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Don't we know it! I've been finding this debate has raged on for so many years, on so many forums, with a great deal of opinions, and little hard evidence to back up claims....

This is interesting as it's the "official" reply from the manufacturer's of WD-40. I know we disagree on this, but I still hold that to make such claims in the litigious and lawyer-happy US of A, you may as well put your balls on the chopping block! (thanks BAZ77 for the link)

WD-40 reply
This is my reply from WD-40 Company about using WD-40 on my "O" ring chain

WD-40 is a multi-purpose light lubricating oil. The WD-40 will definitely displace and remove the water or moisture from the chain. The "WD" stands for water displacement. It will also act as a rust preventative on any of the metal surfaces. WD-40 will not "dry out" the rubber o-rings. We have found no visible effects on surfaces of rubber, and o-rings. Certain types of rubber will swell under prolonged immersion in WD-40 (this refers to long soaking, and not just a spray).


WD-40 is also a cleaner, it will remove grime, dirt, tape, bumper stickers, and oil. It is possible that if there was a special lubricant in the o-rings, the WD-40 could act as a cleaner and remove that oil. The special lubricant would be replaced with WD-40, which is a light lubricating oil. I'm sure there are more superior, heavy duty (and costly) chain lubes on the market. There are a lot of people that recommend using WD-40 on their chains. Perhaps some experimenting with WD-40 as a water remover and rust preventative, followed by a heavier chain lube, would fit your needs. The bottom line is WD-40 will not harm your o-rings, but it could remove a lubricant previously applied to the chain. (end of e-mail)


source - http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8987&highlight=WD-40+letter

JdW

[Nuff]

Johnny, I should start a thread about some blind poor soul merging into me this morning in traffic, I'm sure it will generate more pages on nerdrider.

As for me, I use Motul Chain clean on my chain, it's easy to use and it dries fast. I also use Kero for sprockets and wheels.

[Dr freedom]

So I get this right, cause I cbf'd reading through it all, who is actually saying WD40 is ok to use as a cleaner on a chain?

/Throws a spanner into the works
Here is some useful reading about all the brands.. seems they are all different. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397&page=5

EK chain:
Do not use harsh solvents or chemicals, such as gasoline or benzene. EK recommends using a biodegradable degreaser with a soft (non-wire) bristle brush or clean cloth for removing dirt. Use kerosene (paraffin oil) if necessary, let dry and lubricate immediately within 10 minutes.
http://www.ekchain.com/install.htm

RK Chain:
Q How should I maintain my O-ring chain?
A. Doing routine maintenance on any chain is a crucial step to getting the maximum wearlife out of your chain. You should clean and check its adjustment every 400 miles (sooner if the chain gets excessively dirty). Use formulated O-ring chain cleaner or other similar product to keep dirt from building up around link plates and rollers. Don’t use a wire brush or pressure washer. If your chain comes in contact with water, be sure to use a moisture displacement (like WD40). Lubing an O-Ring chain is vital for maximum wearlife. All RK O-Ring chains are injected at the factory with a lifetime supply of internal lubricant. The purpose of an O-Ring lube is to keep the chain from rusting and the O-rings from drying out. We recommend RK special formula O-Ring Chain Lube because it is a non-aerosol, specifically formulated to stick the chain, yet not attract excessive dirt.
http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/faq.html

Regina:
If the chain is not too dirty, the operation of lubrication is normally sufficient to clean the chain.
When the accumulation of dirt on the chain (sand, mud, asphalt particles or other foreign materials) is excessive, the chain must be washed with a brush and kerosene. After washing, the chain has to be dried immediately with a jet of compressed air.
After off-road use, when the dirt built-up is heavy, wash the chain with a water jet, then dry it immediately with compressed air.
Avoid the use of steam, gasoline or solvents.
When cleaning O-Ring chains, avoid the use of hard brushes or other methods that could damage the rubber O-Rings (compressed air should be kept at 50 cm/2 ft distance minimum).
After washing, immediately lubricate the chain as explained in the next chapter.
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_an...how_to03.shtml (http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_and_maintenance/how_to03.shtml)

Tsubaki:
To clean your Tsubaki chain, it is first necessary to raise the motorcycle on its centre stand with the engine off and the transmission in neutral. Then rotate the rear wheel of the motorcycle (using care to keep your fingers away from the sprockets and chain), spray a moisture displacement lubricant to one side of the chain. After 2 or 3 full revolutions, switch sides and repeat. In this manner you have floated the dirt off the chain and now you need to wipe off the chain with a clean cloth to remove the excess lubricant and dirt residue. Never use a flammable solvent such as gasoline, benzine or kerosene. Additionally, never use water, detergents, steam cleaner or a coarse brush as these damage the chain.
http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance

Diamond Chain:
O-ring chains may be cleaned externally by washing in kerosene. Do not use
any other cleaning agent or the O-rings may be damaged. When cleaning O-ring chain, clean only the external areas of the chain.
Do not attempt to force kerosene into the pin-bush cavity.
For chains which are still usable, soak them in SAE 40 or 50 automotive engine oil (without additives).
Flexing the chain in oil will assure greater penetration of lubricant. Inspect
and clean sprockets.
http://www.diamondchain.co.uk/usr_do...ycle_chain.pdf (http://www.diamondchain.co.uk/usr_doc/DC_cycle_chain.pdf)

[Captain]

This is interesting as it's the "official" reply from the manufacturer's of WD-40. I know we disagree on this, but I still hold that to make such claims in the litigious and lawyer-happy US of A, you may as well put your balls on the chopping block!


I hear ya mate, I understand but my own experience is not necessarily that. Let me give you a totally unrelated example;

You know I am doing some paving at home, anyhow I've used this product called pavelock (made by Amber) in between the pavers, it's a mix of sand, cement and silicone that's supposed to go hard but remain flexible to allow for minor movement without cracking. Anyhow the product is shit, really shit, it doesn't harden etc. I have since investigated this and everyone says the same. Boral had a similar product but were sued and took it off the market a few years back.

Yet Amber keep selling this crap. So there you go, perhaps they make so much out of it that it's worth compensating the odd complainant ... :confused: I don't know. They keep selling cigarettes and bombarding us with EMF radiation too, don't they?

(I know I'm talking about different topics, please don't crucify me fellow RATs ... I can see the comments already .. :lmao:)

[Jonny DeWog]

Cap -

The difference here is geography. Mercifully (for now at least) Australia doesn't have anywhere near the level of litigation (or payouts) that abound in the US.

Eg - my professional indemnity insurance here is $12,000 pa ; My colleagues in the US pay US$90,000!!!!

Like i said, you'd better be prepared to have your balls on the line if you can't back up a claim.....

JdW

[spotcom]

/ off thread / Actually, JDW, NSW used to be 2nd most litigious precinct in the world, after the hugh hess of hey (according to the London insurance market). Then they tweaked a little legislation here, and massaged a little legislation there. All of a sudden, there were a bunch of barristers looking for work! / back on thread /

I use WD40 because it smells nicer than kero and I've got a good lawyer! :lmao:

[Captain]

Aside from flaws in the amateur experiment

Read here: Amateur v. Professional (http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farrelly/glitz-gloss-and-gaffes/2008/08/19/1218911711587.html) (page 1 only) :stirthepot:

Came across this today, and my mind went back to your comment. Meant very much tongue-in-cheek of course :lmao:


:ayyy:

(Given that as an 'amateur' genealogist I have had significantly more success than some of the paid 'professionals', maybe there's some truth there?)

[jasonbw]

I so laugh eevery time I see this thread has a new post :D :D :D

Hey, at the very least anyone can tell were passionate about doing it right, and willing to investigate to make sure we give the right info to all... :clap:

[Captain]

What else are we here for, if not to amuse and entertain one another? oh and maybe an excuse to not do any work ...

[jasonbw]

Cheers to that ! :)

[zRoYz]

I so laugh eevery time I see this thread has a new post :D :D :D

Hey, at the very least anyone can tell were passionate about doing it right, and willing to investigate to make sure we give the right info to all... :clap:

hey it's not a laughing matter :lmao:

I was also wondering if:

should only clean your chain on a certain day of the week

should you clean your chain on a sunny day or a rainy one

what should you wear while cleaning your chain

should you listen to music while cleaning your chain & then what type of music

is it ok to eat or drink while cleaning your chain

should you wear gloves so natural skin acids don't eat your chain

should you sit on the ground or on a chair while cleaning your chain for proper back posture

if the other 1/2 calls you while in the process of cleaning your chain should you answer

if a mate calls you while cleaning your chain should you answer

is it ok to have your mobile phone near your chain due to radiation

shit I'm selling my bike because them chains are complicated things :lmao:

[*Oggy*]

Your gonna have all the Buell owners feeling leftout and neglected in a minute......

maybe a new thread of "what to use to polish your belt ?"

[dazzler]

not to mention those beemer riders too!!!
how to polish your shaft
how to grease and lube you shaft...!!! hahahaha

[Captain]

QUOTE=zRoYz

I was also wondering if:

should only clean your chain on a certain day of the week
well, if you're planning to ride it on the weekend then you'd best do the chain mon-fri, to give the new lubricant a chance to dry and not fling off.

should you clean your chain on a sunny day or a rainy one
I'd say a sunny day is best, it will dry the cleaning agent better so less residual to wash away the new lubricant

what should you wear while cleaning your chain
something nice, you might want to photograph the process, you want to look your best, don't you?

should you listen to music while cleaning your chain & then what type of music
hmmmm ... a tricky one. Something with a high pitch, it will make the links resonate and will allow the cleaning agent to flow better. Probably something middle-eastern or indian would work best

is it ok to eat or drink while cleaning your chain
definetely not. it could contaminate the whole operation. What are you thinking man?

should you wear gloves so natural skin acids don't eat your chain
yes, very good idea

should you sit on the ground or on a chair while cleaning your chain for proper back posture
I'd sit on the ground, maybe with a drop sheet. Good thinking, it shows you care.

if the other 1/2 calls you while in the process of cleaning your chain should you answer
yes, but be careful that you don't do it too loudly, as you could counter the benefit of the music.

if a mate calls you while cleaning your chain should you answer
same as above

is it ok to have your mobile phone near your chain due to radiation
I will start a new thread on 'radiation and motorcycles' we can discuss this at lenght

shit I'm selling my bike because them chains are complicated things
don't lose heart, I know it can seem a big task but with a little guidance you too can have a shiny chain like the motorcycles you see on TV

:stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot:
:stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot:
:stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot:

:ayyy:

[zRoYz]

Thank you for answering my questions Captain, I was starting to lose sleep & now it's all been put to bed i can rest easy :ayyy:

[jasonbw]

Thanks Captain, I was going to email your above advice onto a mate, but then I realised it'd be chain-mail.

[Jonny DeWog]

Read here: Amateur v. Professional (http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farrelly/glitz-gloss-and-gaffes/2008/08/19/1218911711587.html) (page 1 only) :stirthepot:

Came across this today, and my mind went back to your comment. Meant very much tongue-in-cheek of course :lmao:


:ayyy:


I read the same article today on SMH, I thought it was brilliant! (well written too) and certainly thought provoking. Made me realise that I'm a better "amateur" at things than i am a "professional".....

:n:

EDIT: Just went out to the boat, and back again (good thinking time): One consideration that I think was missing from the article was that of outcomes and expectations.

Whilst the motives may differ (the amateur does it for love, the professional for pay) so too do the expectations: Doing something out of love is admired, and forgiven, as it's led by emotion. When we pay for something, however, we expect it to be done properly. Whether it's sealing pavers, or testing o-rings....

Just my 2c worth (or is it rounded up to 5c now??)


JdW

[Captain]

Thanks Captain, I was going to email your above advice onto a mate, but then I realised it'd be chain-mail.

that's awful jason ... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

zRoYz, you're being much too patient with me. Still reckon R11 would do a pretty good job ... :lmao:



I read the same article today on SMH, i thought it was brilliant (well written too) and certainly thought provoking. Made me realise that I'm a better "amateur" at things than i am a "professional".....

In fact, in italian the word 'amatoriale' has different connotations to 'amateur', probably because the 'amato' (loved) part of the word is more obvious ...




10 pages ... :lmao:

[zRoYz]

Still reckon R11 would do a pretty good job ... :lmao:


but you would have to rob a bank to afford it if you could find some, bloody greenies & there save the ozone, I recon in the future your going to be fined if you fart :lmao:

[Turtle]

Let it go boys............................

[BAZ77]

For sale...

1 half-full can of WD40.....

[Birdman]

yep use WD40 and love it, must try the INOX for cleaning chain, its better for lubricating !!!!

[CowskinBodybag]

chains eh?
this is the method i use

i take no resposibility if your bike falls off the stand, you paint the back wheel with kero and fall off, the EPA get you, the water restriction guy gets you etc. etc.

1. bike on race stand. wet underneath bike or kero stains concrete.
2. paintbrush on the kero generously, loosening any crud with a dishbrush/toothbrush incl. around the rear sprocket. (front one too if you're really pedantic)
3. let it sit a minute or so (get rest of cleaning stuff ready for rest of bike) then spray chain with the hose while spinning the rear wheel by hand to wash any residual grit away.
4. wash bike (well, at least the back wheel. it will have kero and shite on it)
5. short spin around block to dry
6. then do the spray on lube bit. not too much. to inside of chain - plates + rollers.
7. use a bit of cardboard to stop overspray of lube onto concrete and swingarm.
8. adjust chain if req. checking for loose/tight spots.

my record is 67,000 K on original chain/sprockets on VFR 750.

PS no WD40 do i use on a chain.

[saf]

I wasn't sure if I should've made a new thread or just added the link here... but I went and made a new thread.

http://www.nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6884

It seems Kero is the besterest option.

[Ed_GSXR]

Hmm, well if I started spraying chains with WD40 at work, I'd be hauled into the office for more training pretty quick.

But if it works for some of you..Good Luck!

[adendes]

And just to be safe turn the wheel backwards so there is no trap point for your fingers - although it is just commen sense.

Just realised never seen anybody with on e of these here. Had one before they work great and never had to clean or adjust my chain in a whole year with it.

http://www.scottoiler.com/

I've had a scottoiler on my bike for years and have done over 22,000kms with a aluminum rear sprocket, i replaced front sprocket and chain at the same time but both still had more miles in them.
I fitted the oiler when the bike had about 9,000kms on it and now has over 43,000kms on it with two sets of chains and sprockets including the oem set that it came with.
I have ridden in all weather conditions, but the constant lubrication has kept them in good nick and clean,regularly adjusting the chain does help.
I think they work great as well.

[Dr freedom]

hey it's not a laughing matter :lmao:

I was also wondering if:

should only clean your chain on a certain day of the week

should you clean your chain on a sunny day or a rainy one

what should you wear while cleaning your chain

should you listen to music while cleaning your chain & then what type of music

is it ok to eat or drink while cleaning your chain

should you wear gloves so natural skin acids don't eat your chain

should you sit on the ground or on a chair while cleaning your chain for proper back posture

if the other 1/2 calls you while in the process of cleaning your chain should you answer

if a mate calls you while cleaning your chain should you answer

is it ok to have your mobile phone near your chain due to radiation

shit I'm selling my bike because them chains are complicated things :lmao:

:lmao: any other forum would have got the shits & closed this thread .. we would have missed this post then lol

:thumbsup:

[CowskinBodybag]

I've had a scottoiler on my bike for years and have done over 22,000kms with a aluminum rear sprocket, i replaced front sprocket and chain at the same time but both still had more miles in them.
I fitted the oiler when the bike had about 9,000kms on it and now has over 43,000kms on it with two sets of chains and sprockets including the oem set that it came with.
I have ridden in all weather conditions, but the constant lubrication has kept them in good nick and clean,regularly adjusting the chain does help.
I think they work great as well.


thats lame.
record is 67,000 on a viffer (original set) and 30,000 so far on my new bike.
keep the chain adjusted, CLEANED and lubed it will last ages.

[_chado77]

thats lame.
record is 67,000 on a viffer (original set) and 30,000 so far on my new bike.
keep the chain adjusted, CLEANED and lubed it will last ages.


talk to zee about my patented system..works wonders:ayyy:

[bristunt]

talk to zee about my patented system..works wonders:ayyy:

isn't that just when it goes in for a service?????????

[_chado77]

isn't that just when it goes in for a service?????????

less then that mate:)

[CowskinBodybag]

mind you 30,000 k for chad takes 6 years!

[_chado77]

mind you 30,000 k for chad takes 6 years!

hey 10000ks on the duck in a year ..not to bad for a latte sipper..:)

[Captain]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/newspaper-generator.jpg

[Dr freedom]

^^lol

[Jonny DeWog]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/newspaper-generator.jpg

Nice try!!!!........:spank:

JdW

[Havago]

No i don't use WD40 or kero.
I dont use them cause WD40: heard to much bad about, Kero: it likes to soak into my rear tyre.

I use Preen the great unstainer. :thumbsup:
Yes it is the same stuff the wife uses to clean my clothes.

I just spray it on and leave while i have a smoke than hose and scrub with brush.


i remember once when detailing a bike when i took off the front sproket cover to find that there was so much gunkt hat inside was solid full of th stuff. :mad:There was only a gap where th chain spun through. Yeeah not only does the rear need cleaning sometimes but dont forget the front sproket as well.

For the front sprocket i just spray it in there and leave it for a bit than hose it out. So much gunk comes out so i'm pretty sure its doing the job in there.

Preen also works great on the rims. Just spray onto a cloth and wipe over than wash as normal.

I love Preen. :ayyy:

[Boxer]

Lubing chains :confused1: Just buy a shaft drive:stirthepot::stirthepot::lmao::lmao:

[ST Kurt]

this thread is like a car accident, you just have to have a look...

[Jonny DeWog]

Lubing chains :confused1: Just buy a shaft drive:stirthepot::stirthepot::lmao::lmao:

+1

JdW

"proud Guzzi owner...."

:beatdeadhorse:

[Captain]

Poor horse.

[Birdman]

INOX brake and chain cleaner:ayyy:

[Johnny]

INOX brake and chain cleaner:ayyy:
C'mon, a month later and thats the best you can come up with ?
Wouldve expected something either like brake fluid or Mr sheen at the least from you :lmao:

[Captain]

Someone PLEASE make this thread go away .... :spank:

:lmao::ayyy:

[Dr freedom]

Why buy WD40 when you can buy a can of stuff that is actually called chain cleaner. Too easy..

[Birdman]

C'mon, a month later and thats the best you can come up with ?
Wouldve expected something either like brake fluid or Mr sheen at the least from you :lmao:

no way Johnny you know i only use good products, i dont care how much something costs if its good and saves me work then i use it and after using the INOX for quite some time now i thought i would try the brake and chain cleaner and its bloody good

have cleaned my calipers 3 times and chain twice and still got more in the can, last time i used Nulon brake cleaner and i went through a can and a half in one go

[Team Zero]

I have been using kero for years. I use it on everything from chain to rims to grease on the bodywork. A little on a rag of course and then a wash with soapy water after.

[ST Kurt]

i have been using kero for years. I use it on everything from chain to rims to grease on the bodywork. A little on a rag of course and then a wash with soapy water after.

+100

good to see this thread is still kicking on :stirthepot: