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Captain
18-06-2008, 09:02 PM
I came across this article, I though could be of interest to some RATS:


http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_08_z+traction_control+alex_barros.jpg
With the right electronics and a good software engineer, there is a lot of traction to be found in the wet. Alex Barros demonstrates at Shanghai.

If you attended any MotoGP event this year, you no doubt heard many of the bikes coughing and sputtering as they miss on acceleration. This is not because of some mechanical problem, but rather the engine is cutting out momentarily as the bike's electronics limit power to the rear wheel for traction control.

http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_01_z+traction_control+valentino_rossi.jpg

Traditional, simple traction control has been around for many years, and even in the motorcycle world: Honda's 1992 ST1100 had such a system, but it was discontinued after several years. In basic traction control, front- and rear-wheel speeds are monitored with sensors. A loss of traction is indicated by the rear wheel turning faster than the front, and a control unit decreases power by any one of several available means until both wheels are turning at the same speed. It all sounds simple enough, but in two-wheeled racing there are many additional factors to consider.

A quick perusal of traction control systems in the automotive world shows how they have evolved over the years. Some setups control power by retarding ignition timing momentarily, others by cutting fuel. Still others directly control the throttle plate with a servo-motor, much like Yamaha's 2006 R6. And some even apply the brakes to individual wheels rather than cut power. Much of the advances are in cars with four-wheel drive because it's hard to detect a difference in wheel speeds if they are all spinning, and some innovative ways of determining a slip condition must be employed.

Other details in cars that must be considered (and have been overcome) are the difference in the outside- and inside-wheel speeds when the car is turning, how to apply the control if the driver is applying the throttle and brake at the same time (evidently a common occurrence) and near-instantaneous changes in wheel speed when the car goes over bumps or a small patch of ice. Suddenly, it's not so simple anymore. The patents for the various systems are filled with flowcharts and logic diagrams rather than parts drawings and schematics.

The problems are similar in the motorcycle world, but what's changed in recent years to overcome them is not the basic knowledge or technology but rather the computing and electronic capabilities that can now be harnessed in a small and lightweight package. The problem now is not so much implementing traction control but rather taking advantage of all this computing power. Aftermarket companies are increasingly offering ECUs which provide ignition and injection control, as well as data acquisition. From there, adding traction control becomes a software exercise more than anything.

http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_02_z+traction_control+drawing.jpg
Honda's mid-'90s ST1100 was offered with a traction control option, which measured and compared front- and rear-wheel speeds to determine how much to retard ignition timing and cut back engine power.

Working with the basic concept of measuring wheel speeds and comparing them, we can consider the other aspects of a motorcycle's dynamics that must be taken into account and how to accommodate them. One important point is that riders use a spinning back tire to help steer, so a certain amount of slip must be enabled. Some wheelspin can actually increase traction when the bike is upright, but when the bike is leaned over then very little slip is desired. Conveniently, gyro sensors, a common part of any data acquisition system, can detect how far a bike is leaned over, and this value can be used as part of the control algorithm. Similarly, the throttle position sensor can be used--if the rider is using very little throttle, he is probably in the middle of a corner and wants as little wheelspin as possible. Use more throttle, and more spin can be allowed.

http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_03_z+traction_control+graph.jpg
A tire's traction level peaks at a given amount of slip, which is counterintuitive to no wheelspin at all for best traction. Traction and optimum slip value can change for different types of pavement. Some traction control systems can learn over time to adjust automatically for changing conditions.

More effective systems will take into account every sensor possible: gear position, gyro, rpm, throttle position, accelerometers (going uphill or downhill?) and even suspension travel (what if the front wheel is off the ground?). All the data is crunched using algorithms and look-up tables in the ECU, which then comes up with a number for the amount of slip required. The other side of the equation is controlling the power. Similar to the car applications, various methods can be used, including fuel or ignition tampering, or even control of the throttle in a fly-by-wire system. Heuristic systems can even adapt over time, learning how much traction is available at various lean angles and speeds and adjusting themselves accordingly. It really comes down to how savvy a software engineer is on your team more than anything.

http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_04_z+traction_control+throttle_plates.jpg
One way a traction control system can reduce power is by electronically closing the throttle. In this Honda setup, a servo motor and gears can advance or retard the throttle plates compared to the rider's inputs. A similar arrangement on the original Yamaha M1 gave throttle control for two cylinders to the ECU, and the most recent iteration has the ECU controlling all the throttle plates.

One major obstacle with traction control in four-wheel drive cars is how to detect the car's speed when all the wheels are under power and could be spinning. MotoGP bikes have a similar problem. On many straights, the front wheel is rarely on the ground and the front-wheel speed sensor may not be accurate. One solution for autos is a small radar gun pointing at the ground. Another is GPS, which is accurate enough these days to measure small changes in speed very quickly. Most, however, poll the various gyros and accelerometers and calculate the car's ground speed based on the sensor readings, and this is surely used on the MotoGP bikes in conjunction with the wheel speed sensors.

Many four-wheel series allow traction control simply because policing any rules outlawing it is nearly impossible. The required sensors can be easily hidden on a car and, in some cases, wheel speed is not even measured. Some add-on units using only engine rpm as a guide are as small as a disposable lighter and can be easily removed after a race. Disallowing the use of front-wheel speed sensors, as the AMA has done in an effort to stop traction control being used, is not much of a deterrent if the system is part of (and tucked away inside of) the ECU.

As ABS (and the wheel speed sensors and computing power that comes along with it) becomes standard equipment on more production motorcycles, traction control and other electronic trickery won't be much further behind.


http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146_0603_05_z+traction_control+wheel_sensor.jpg
More pick-up points for a wheel speed sensor to detect gives a higher resolution to the data, enabling a traction control system to react faster. The solid disc used here is a magnetic ring element, into which a strip of small magnets is embedded for more data points and accuracy than a toothed ring. The Yamaha M1s have been seen with sensors on each side of the wheel for redundancy. Also note in this picture the small opening in the fender with gradations, used to quickly measure maximum fork travel using an O-ring on the tube.

spotcom
18-06-2008, 09:11 PM
It's a good article. Thanks! There's a hell of a lot of science that goes into making things go fast. I was also interested to hear that the latest moto GP bikes have sensors measuring the remaining fuel, for instance, and will scale back on power towards the end of the race to ensure that the bike makes it without running out on the last lap. I don't know if we'll see that technology trickling down to our production bikes, but the traction control and ABS are certianly making an appearance.

jasonbw
18-06-2008, 09:14 PM
Cool read, thanks Captn

Captain
18-06-2008, 09:28 PM
I was particularly surprised at the graph showing maximum traction occurs when you actually have a little bit of slip. It explains a lot; I recall drag racing mates all the time in my younger days, and my best launches always came with a touch of wheel spin (on a 1985 Yamaha FZ750.... I loved that bike).
Never quite understood why. Mind you, I still don't, but at least I know that I wasn't imagining it ... :confused1: :lmao:

Kat00
18-06-2008, 09:38 PM
Its astonishing what computers have done for us.
Where does it all end, I ask myself almost daily.
Great post Captain. :ayyy:

jasonbw
18-06-2008, 10:09 PM
Never quite understood why. Mind you, I still don't, but at least I know that I wasn't imagining it ... :confused1: :lmao:

No computers used to work that out.. was written back in the 80's by Keith Code, yep, here I go again quoting Twist of the Wrist, but it says that when you're accelerating hard out of a corner, the shock is being compressed, so being at the bottom part of the stroke (just like forks) has it being rough and not able to respond to minor road changes, slight spinning of the rear relieves some of the pressure and allows the shock to work back in the more optimal range of the stroke.

Captain
18-06-2008, 10:40 PM
wow .... didn't see that one coming.
I figured it must have something to do with the properties of the rubber.

Marcus
19-06-2008, 03:54 PM
Zeno posted a pic of one of the superstock guys on SC2/3's, wheel in the air and soaking wet track.

Turtle
19-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Nice stuff J .......:ayyy:

Captain
27-07-2009, 10:00 PM
Most of this story deals with the way riders feel about TC, but there's a hint about Stoner's method that I find very interesting;

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/tractioncontrol.jpg

Boony
27-07-2009, 11:38 PM
at last years Moto GP friday's practice was a wet session i was standing at T12 and Stoner was the only rider that had the traction control kick in every lap his technique must work because he was definately the fastest through that corner on that day.

Kringle
28-07-2009, 09:20 AM
I was wondering why the MotoGP guys are still having high-sides? Do they just have the traction control down so low that it only works a little bit? I would have thought traction control, if working corectly, would stop a high-side. In the last round at Donington, Lorenzo had a high-side that wasn't quite a high-side. The bike sort of step out (on the white line), regripped and Lorenzo started to go over the handle bars, but then they both just sort of just feel in a heap on the ground and went skidding down the road. I was wondering if that was the traction control catching it right at the last moment?

Captain
28-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Good question Kringle, I have often asked the same ... but no answer yet :D

Kringle
28-07-2009, 11:28 AM
A high-side is caused by one of three things (correct me if I'm wrong);

1) Exiting a corner, smooth track, rear tyre near breaking traction, throttle open more than speed and power to wheel over comes the traction available. Rear wheel spins up, steps out sideways and doesn't grip till either the throttle is closed and wheel slows down (which is usually to late anyway) or the tyre gains traction cross-ways.

2) Exiting a corner, smooth track, rear tyre near breaking traction, throttle open at just enough, rear tyre hits a bump or white line causing it to step out side ways until the tyre gains traction cross-ways.

3) A combination of the first and second instance.

I would take a guess that traction control would "catch it" under the first scenario but probably not for the second and definitely not for the third. I think that at the end of the day electronics cannot account for changing track conditions (white lines) or what the rider’s reaction is.

The reason I ask, is I have a 1098s dedicated track bike and am think of upgrading to a 1198s purely for the traction control. My thought was it will probably be a benefit and prevent some high-sides but not all.

Dunno
28-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Good question Kringle, I have often asked the same ... but no answer yet :D

It would have to come down to the tyres, wouldnt it? Sure a high side is a result of the rear tyre spinning & losing traction but I dont think the anti spin computer can measure the speed in which the tyre moves sideways :confused1:
In theory it could create more high sides, once the tyre steps out to side the traction control takes full effect, stops the tyre from spinning & over they go.
I honestly dont know. Just thinkin out aloud & it kinda makes sense to me :confused1:

Captain
28-07-2009, 11:40 AM
That's a fair point (that the computer can't measure the speed of the tyre moving sideways), but for it to move 'sideways' it has to spin or slip ... which is what the traction control should prevent.

I bought the 600 for two reasons;
1) To learn to carry more speed through turns and
2) Less likely to highside

The second being the major concern. I'm with Kringle, and considering the 1198S (or possible the new Beemer), subject to this point being cleared to my satisfaction :ayyy:

Kringle
28-07-2009, 11:40 AM
When a person is in control typically the wheel spins up so much that when it steps out, it happen so fast the rider doesn't have time to react. With the traction control it notices the rear wheel spinning up, cuts power as soon as it can (much faster than a rider can) and allows the rear wheel to slow down to try and match the road speed again (gain traction).

zenodamper
28-07-2009, 12:30 PM
ZX10R's have TCS; it works too! ;)

Captain
28-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Don't they say it's not a 'true' TC .... and they in fact call it something else?

Kringle
28-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Here a write up about the DTC FYI http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0808_traction_control_system_sportbike_technol ogy/index.html

yeah, KIMS, Kawasaki Ignition Management System.

ozducati
28-07-2009, 08:09 PM
ok, couple of things... as i have recently discovered..

you can still high side with TC... my rear tyre let go through turn 7, combination of a couple of things, i think i was probably pushing a little hard on a cold track and my rear tyre was a hard compound Dunlop slick which had suffered a fair amount of cold tearing..

what have i learnt? ...

1. in winter at EC, use soft/medium compound front/rear..
2. keep a closer eye on said tyre and when i feel it slippin around back off a notch..
3. remember on a cold track, even if the sun is shining, it's still a bloody cold surface through winter...
4. buy good safety gear...
5. thank god for a great medical team on location, and that no one was too close to me when i had my incident..
6. it's nice to know i have good mates who got my bike/car/trailer home for me, even fed the dog! (wife was away)


here's a good thing on DTC as well.. although i have to say you can change gearing/ and use different tyres/slicks with DTC


http://issuu.com/hellforleather/docs/ducati_traction_control?mode=a_p

Captain
28-07-2009, 08:25 PM
Just maybe I'll stick with my little 600 for a while longer ... http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/438.gif

Kringle
28-07-2009, 08:32 PM
That explains alot ozducati, thanks. I think I might just stick to my 1098s for now. At least i know that it's entirely up to me....

ozducati
28-07-2009, 10:03 PM
guys, don't be put off the 1198s at all, i cannot blame anyone but me.. the DTC probably already saved my butt 50 times who knows.., this once it was my fault.. and the same can happen on any bike...

the trick is, don't expect the 1198s to save your butt, the DTC is an aid.. not a be all lifesaver, and the 1198s i a fantastic bike...

zRoYz
28-07-2009, 11:58 PM
guys, don't be put off the 1198s at all, i cannot blame anyone but me.. the DTC probably already saved my butt 50 times who knows.., this once it was my fault.. and the same can happen on any bike...

the trick is, don't expect the 1198s to save your butt, the DTC is an aid.. not a be all lifesaver, and the 1198s i a fantastic bike...

Above is 100% correct DTC is only an aid, you only need to look for that example in motogp which is F1 of bikes so no expense spared lastest & greatest systems. They still slide the rear for example Rossi off last race he lost the rear because there are times the DTC system will not catch the loss of traction fast enough & at speed even a split second of loss traction can mean your sliding on your butt.

zenodamper
29-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Yup, won't catch the "centrifugal" slides so well.....

ozducati
29-07-2009, 09:58 AM
Above is 100% correct DTC is only an aid, you only need to look for that example in motogp which is F1 of bikes so no expense spared lastest & greatest systems. They still slide the rear for example Rossi off last race he lost the rear because there are times the DTC system will not catch the loss of traction fast enough & at speed even a split second of loss traction can mean your sliding on your butt.

or your head...