A novices new front end

[blackzook]

My Aprilia RS250 track bike is a great thing with only a couple of short comings, rubber brake lines, super soft suspension and a narrow 3” wide front wheel that can only run a 110 tyre which are hard to find in sticky compounds. It’s a 1995 model with the Showa front end that is obviously designed for someone a lot lighter than my 100kg. The 95 front end has compression damping in one fork leg and a spring in the other. Spring preload can be adjusted on one leg and compression damping only on the other. She had weeping fork seals as well so I pulled the front end and took it to Terry Hay at Shock Treatment for new seals, heavier spring designed to support a fully grown person and gold valves. Terry called me a couple of days later to tell me that there are no parts available for this old front end and that I was better off transplanting something more modern.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/1-2.jpg

I searched the forums and trolled the wrecking yards measuring hoping to use my original callipers and discs on the new front end and finally found a suitable replacement in a 2001 non radial RSV1000 Showa front end. The RSV has adjustment for compression and rebound dampening and has spring preload adjustment, on top of that aftermarket springs and gold valves are readily available

The wreckers wanted silly money so eBay was my friend and after several weeks a complete RSV front end came up complete with top and bottom triple clamps and axle but no axle spacers and no wheel. The auction ended and she was mine for $500.00 posted from Adelaide.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/2-2.jpg

Searched the wreckers again and all I could find was a later model RSV front wheel 3.5” wide so I can fit a 120 tyre and not have to worry about riding off the edge of the tyre but its off a radial front end which means the hub disc carrier was 5mm too wide, oh well it was the right money for $140.00 and undamaged.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/5-2.jpg

Got all the bits together and stripped the original front end off the Aprilia, the RSV steering stem is a larger diameter than the RS so down to ABC bearings to search the catalogue for taper rollers with a bore to suit the RSV shaft and bearing cup to suit the RS250 steering head. Found a top and bottom set but the bottom bearing was 2mm thinner that the original RS bearing so 2 x 1mm bearing shims would have to do to stop the lower tree hitting the steering head.

This morning I started the trial fit up, the old front end and bearings came out and new ones went in with spacer above the lower bearing. The top triple was slightly thicker and the retaining nut had a smaller step down at the bottom so I had to cut the centre out of an old bearing and grind it down to the right thickness to use as a spacer so that the top nut would bear on the centre of the top bearing and tension the whole stem.

All good tensioned up beautifully and moves nice and smooth, I trimmed the alloy steering stops on the frame by 3mm each side with a grinder and dremmel to give it a bit more steering lock which was pitiful with the RSV lower triple tree. Trail fitted the front guard and it’s a perfect bolt in fit!! The RSV forks are 1mm larger diameter than the RS250 so I had to mill the clamp for the steering damper and the clip-on bars to suit.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/3-2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/4-2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/6-2.jpg

So she is all bolted up. All that’s left to do is:
1. Machine the centre of my RS250 discs out by a mm or so to fit the new wheel
2. Machine the front hub down by 5mm (2.5mm each side).
3. Mill some calliper adaptors so that I can use the original RS Brembo’s, or I may have a lead on a set of RSV callipers for the right money, this would be much easier.
4. Measure the wheel centreline and turn up some spacers for each side of the wheel.

A mate has a lathe and a mill at work that I can use after hours so hopefully I can get it all done in the next couple of weeks, I might practice on some scrap first as I have never used a lathe or mill before!

In the end I hope to have a quality replacement adjustable front end for less than a grand and have learnt a few things along the way as I have never done this sort of thing before. That’s the beauty of a cheap track bike you can play and learn at the same time.

Can’t wait to get her finished and try out the new front end and resprung rear at a track day.

Next is to have a go at respraying the race glass, do my first two stroke engine rebuild and fit a set of expansion chambers. The mods are almost as much fun as the riding!

[KAOS]

Thats tops, having a go at pulling it all out and putting a new front end on it yourself!!

I learnt heaps with my rebuild under progress of the VFR thanks to Vinnie. Its not too complicated as i imagined it would be, but mine requires no where as near mods as yours does.

Saving money and personal satisfaction of knowing it your own work :)

[lilninja]

Hey Blackzook, good to see your havin a go, just remember there is a wealth of knowledge on here, (not me) who are willing to help if things become tricky, keep us posted! Well see you at the trck soon!

[blackzook]

Top effort there matee! Now have a go at grafting to RS250 motors together to get a V4 500 2 stroke.... now there's a trackbike!


Imagine the grunt when it hits the power band. :drivingsmiley:

Thanks for the feedback guys, work commitments normally mean I pay someone to mod my bikes so I'm really enjoying doing it myself. The more experienced here will prolly say why the fuck do that when this would be easier but thats not really the point is it?

[Kat00]

Huge effort.:clap:
Your right, the journey is almost as much fun as the destination.:ayyy:

[RIPPERTON]

Excellent job Zook
Your very resourcefull.
That thing is going to be fun to ride now

[blackzook]

It was already fun to ride before the mods. I have only done a 4 trackdays so far but have really enjoyed them on the Aprilia. My first trackday was on my busa and I hated it, all I could think of was the damage and cost of repairing a blinged up busa and ended up riding slower on the track than I normally do on the road where insurance pays for mistakes. LOL.

Since getting the RS I have had a great time, I was really pumped to crack 2 minutes at the creek on my 2 thousand dollar eBay prilla until Jeff from Rapid bike told me he does 141 on his RS250. By the way my turbo busa should have a small mention in next months Rapid bike mag. Jeff came back from his ride on her white and shaking all he could say was insane fuck me fuck me. I took that as positive feedback:)

[pan]

My Aprilia RS250 track bike is a great thing with only a couple of short comings...

You forgot to mention the rider! :lmao:




:ayyy:
Lookin good Zook! :mod_smilie_rockwoot

[blackzook]

Pan,
Thats why I'm upgrading the front end - to make up for shitty riding. I figure that if I spend a gazillion on the bike even a shitty rider should be able to turn a good laptime.

Then I can claim its all about ability:mod_smilie_rockwoot

[Schtevo]

Nice write up - and nice work.

I think you are selling yourself a little short here - this doesn't look like the work of a novice to me.

I've done a similar thing on my FZR400 to fit 17x4.5in rear wheel over the standard 18x4.0. I had to machine down the hub on one side to realign the brake disk. A word of caution that was given to me that you should be aware of:

You need to be VERY precise when milling down the hubs - any misalignment will give you a shudder in the brakes (just like having a warped disk) that you will never get rid of.

I'll be interested to read your first ride report when you get it finished.

[BART]

Great write up :ayyy:

Looking forward to hearing about your ride when you get it finished

[Tarrasque]

So in this the section I shouldn't mention I have a spare set of everything you just mentioned

front showa's from Falco (same as 99-02 RSV), wheels, discs (2 sets), brake callipers, lines, leavers, triple clamps. etc.

[blackzook]

Are any of those bits for sale??

If so send me a PM with what you want for a set of discs, calipers and wheel spacers.

[blackzook]

Tarrasque

Did you get my PM??

----------------------
Sold!!
That is fantastic thank you mate. I flew to Perth last night for work and will be here till late friday night.
If possible PM your mobile number and I'll give you a call Saturday morning to organise pickup and payment.

Thanks again
Bruce
0400 697 254
------------------------

Send me your number mate and I'll give you a call tomorrow when I get back into town

[Marcus]

thats pretty cool!

[blackzook]

More progress.
I had to go to Collie in W.A. for work last week and while I was there I called into Wayne Patterson Ducati in Bunbury to catch up with Wayne and Todd who I used to race with, I was telling them about the conversion and they suggested I run a single disc with a brembo calliper off a 9 - - ? whatever Ducati. This calliper is apparently the ducks guts with 4 pistons and 4 brake pads. Wayne had purchased a pair of them and only used one on his twin turbo Ducati drag bike, he offered me the spare calliper at a silly mates rate price so I couldn’t help myself. Unfortunately he has milled 4mm off the calliper mount to get it to fit his cartridge Ohlins forks that he has internally modified to give only 25mm travel (sacrilege) and to fit his magnesium front wheel. So I will have to make up some new spacers to pack it out to the correct spacing for the disc. Still for the money I aint complaining.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/1rs.jpg

Got back to Sydney yesterday and fitted up the calliper to the new wheel and front end but my RS250 discs are only 300mm dia (actually measure out at 295mm) and the pads were only sweeping the outer 2/3rds of the disc. So on the phone to the wreckers and found a RSV disc (320mm) that came off a bike that was binned with only 8 kilometres on it. Apparently the guy flipped it on a test ride. $100.00 for the disc and he threw in the front wheel spacers for free.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/4rs.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/3rs.jpg


So at the moment the front end is finished all that needs to be done now is to mill out the RS250 clip on bars for the bigger forks, fit the new fork springs, paint the wheels and get new tyres. The whole conversion was easier than I expected given a bit of help and guidance from friends. I have an old compressor and spray gun that has been sitting in the shed for years so will have a lash at slapping some paint on the wheels myself.


Total cost so far
2002 RSV100 forks $500.00
RSV 3 1/2” front wheel $140.00
Bearings and spacers $90.00
Brembo 4 pad calliper $200.00
Disc $100.00

Still to buy
Softer front springs approx $130.00
New tyres front and back from Craig White


Hopefully the total cost will be under a grand plus tyres, not bad for a fully setup quality front end with top shelf brakes.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/5rs.jpg

I’m off to New Caledonia (work) for a week so hopefully have it all finished and ready for a test ride early next month. If the whole front end doesn’t fall off then I’ll book in for the next track day to discover if one disc is enough!

[Schtevo]

Now I'm convinced you are selling yourself short when you called yourself a novice....

Mighty impressive work, and very interesting the way you have done it on such a limited budget - keep the story going, I want to see completed pics and read a ride report on this thing.

[gazza414]

Bruce ,

Gixxer forks sit / fit straight up to the Aprilia triple clamps too...no mods required. Busa's would too, however 1mm bigger in dia.

looks good

[RIPPERTON]

Your going to have a problem with torsion in the forks under braking. The whole front end will feel like its twisting and you will find you will need to correct by turning the bars to the left.
Those forks were designed for twin discs which is why they dont have a brace going from fork to fork.
Ride it like this so you see what I mean but dont take it to the track, fit the other disc and caliper first.

[jace]

Well done matee,
Keep up the good work..:ayyy:

[zRoYz]

Your going to have a problem with torsion in the forks under braking. The whole front end will feel like its twisting and you will find you will need to correct by turning the bars to the left.
Those forks were designed for twin discs which is why they dont have a brace going from fork to fork.
Ride it like this so you see what I mean but dont take it to the track, fit the other disc and caliper first.

I have been pondering that exact question as the front wheel being used is a twin rotor setup so the rotor mounting points are a fair way outside of the optimum center of the wheel. Also would be interested in the difference in weight between the standard forks & the new forks & how they will effect bikes balance as it is a light weight bike.

Also how much do you need to machine standard triple to fit new forks because cast triples don't have the strength of billet & are made to be a required strength. The new forks will be allot more ridged resisting flex than the old forks which will also place higher load on the triple clamps.

I'm not an engineer above are just pondering questions.

[blackzook]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I dont think that a single disc will overly affect the handling, many bike came factory with a single disc setup without ill affect. I suppose there is onlyy one way to find out for sure.

My right arm scales tell me that the RSV and the RS forks are similar weight. The weight saving will be the single caliper and disc which is all unsprung. I am told that the later RSV front wheel is lighter than the RS even tho it is wider. I'll chuck all the bits on the scales when I strip it all down for painting.

I fitted the RSV tripples with the forks so there was no machining done to them at all.

I'll let you know how she handles soon.
Bruce

[blackzook]

Well the front end is all back together, took me a heap of time with being away for work every week not really sure about the bearings I installed in the lower triple trees tho they seem to bind a bit so may have to look at other options. Possibly have to get a new stem pressed in so that I can fit off the shelf tapered rollers top and bottom.

Decided to have a go at painting for the first time all the panels were cracked and damaged as any truly good track bike should be so got into the fibreglass repairs and the bog.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01015.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01017.jpg


Sanded her all back and hit it with undercoat, the result was shocking lumps and bumps everywhere apparently what felt smooth as a baby’s bum to the hand while sanding was not really the case when viewed with undercoat on. This painting thing is harder than it looks. So sand it all again then fill then sand again. Second try at undercoat then a shot of colour. Even stripped and painted the wheels.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01018.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01019.jpg

[blackzook]

The orange is a base only and will be mostly be overlaid with red and black then the graphics go on then clear.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01036.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01037.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01038.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01036.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01037.jpg

Imp pretty happy with the result so far, not so bad for a first timer with a bunnings compressor (the old one blew up) and an old spray gun.

[blackzook]

Got some new parts for the RS couldn’t help myself - new Tyga chambers

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01027.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01029.jpg

And found a spare fairing on eBay that I got for a song to try a different colour scheme as you can tell I'm really enjoying the whole painting thing.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01032.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01033.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/DSC01035.jpg

For a track bike she really spends a lot of time in bits but the mods and work done yourself is all part of the fun. Aw fuckit I'm slow around the track anyway, might as well shoot for the prettiest bike in the pits. Wonder how hard it would be to powder coat the frame.

[Marcus]

I would have just seeked a 2nd or 3rd opinion on the stock front end and got a shock for it.

Sorry im being a bit short sighted and am seeing the track time missed out ;-)

[spotcom]

Mate, I'm impressed! When are you making the track debut with that baby?

[blackzook]

Not short sighted at all mate, gixxer forks would have fit right into the stock tripples but wanted to try something different, my money my time its been fun so far and its not a mistake until I give up on it and advertise it on ebay as a FANTASTIC track bike just needs minor polish. LOL.:)

It may end up as one of those never fiinished specials (hope not) but nothing ventured as they say!

[*Oggy*]

Always like to see a good write up with pics. i agree.... the whole fun is in the trial and error with rebuilds. I'm looking to upgrade the front end on the Harris and am always looking at ebay / other bikes for ideas / donors.

[clarkey]

Great Job ,lovet to hear how she runs:ayyy:

[RUSSELL]

if your a novice, ild hate to see what iam......

[ST Kurt]

Cheers, Zook. For those, like myself, who are visual people and have yet to venture into this territory, these write up's are something of a confidence booster.

Good work zook.

[blackzook]

Final update on the build, alcohol, work (I travel a LOT) and women (or lack of) dragged this whole rebuild out for months longer than it should have taken

I had fitted the RSV1000 front end but didn’t like the half assed job I had done the steering head bearings were a mixture of tapered rollers - spacers and ball races dodgy as and just didn’t feel right.
Might as well do it right so I took it all to a mate who has a lathe and mill. We pressed out the RS250 steering stem and machined up a stepped spacer to allow it to securely fit into the larger RSV lower tree, the top tree had to be milled and spacers machined up and pressed in to suit top and bottom. A piece of piss really when you have someone who knows what they are doing. All of this allowed the use of new stock RS250 tapered roller bearings top and bottom. It turned out beautifully.

Next was the brakes, I had originally intended just running one front disc but the more I thought about it the more it worried me, in the end I went with two Brembo 4 pad 4 piston callipers onto Brembo fully floating 320mm ductile iron rotors with a Brembo radial master cylinder and braided lines. No worries about stopping now she would have to be the best braked little bugger at the track. The first time I hit the brakes was a two fingered stoppie, my first and it scared the shit outa me. A dit of practice and she is incredible never felt anything stop like it.

Tyres are Bridgestone soft slicks with warmers, the wider RSV1000 front wheel allowed a decent tyre on the front to go with the 165 on the rear.

Suspension is a Hyperpro rear with high and low speed dampening adjustment that I got second hand from New Zealand gotta love bike forums. Zeno resprung and revalved the lot including shortening the front end to suit.

MMT tuned and rejeted the thing to suit the new expansion chambers.

All of this was finished and assembled at home last Sunday before Wakefield. After fitting the shock and just before loading it onto the ute I had a bourbon and thought why not start it and let the neibours enjoy the sound of a mighty 2 stroke on chambers, of course the throttle cable snapped. A throttle cable for a 10 year old Italian bike would be easy to find at 5pm on a Sunday right? FFsake.

After picking up my can of bourbon from my neibours front yard I did a quick search and ended up cutting down the derailer cable from my mountain bike and drilling and silver soldering the original ferrule in place.

Throttle cable fixed and the bastard won’t start, this is fun. I searched the loom for hours (maybe not quite that long is pissed off) pulling the whole fucker apart looking for the reason for no spark and no tacho. Finally at 11pm Sunday night I gave up and just loaded up the ute with a bike that didn’t work. Mildly annoyed was I.

Lobbed into MMT at Granville 6am Monday morning hoping they might turn up early and find a quick cure. No such luck we stripped her down again starting at 7am and searched for an hour when he found a loose connector. Great guys dropped everything and focused on my bike then charged me FA awesome I will drop off a carton of crownies tomorrow for great service.

A quick reload and off to Wakefield, we arrived at 10.30 unloaded signed in and off on our first session only to find no power at all popping and farting with fuel pouring out of the exhaust. Tex give me advice on how to strip down the carbie (I'm a carpenter not a stinkin mechanic) where we found a jet had vibrated out and was sitting in the float bowl.

Fixed and out on track with the bike and the motor purring like a kitten what a fucking blast she is awesome, power handling and suspension much improved, had a great day all of the little problems leading up to her running properly once overcome sort of made the day even more memorable if you know what I mean. A great day met a heap of rats Id only seen on line a big thanks to Tex and all at Rats who were involved in making it a smoothly run friendly fantastic day.

Thanks again to Tex for showing me the good lines, I’m going as fast as fuck while he in front takes a hand off the bars pointing at the apex I should hit. Then the bastard starts waving me to go faster and catch up, FU I was going as fasterer as I could while you as bored as shit was waving at your mates..

Well now I'm hooked and have booked in for my next track day at Phillip Island on January 26th. Can’t wait I might even get a chance to dial in the suspension this time. Poor little thing I'm 6'-5 and 110kg suited.

Some pics below my first attempt at painting turned out ok. The whole project was an adventure and fairly cheap considering the mods done if a dumb ass carpenter like me with little mechanical aptitude can do it anyone can.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/large-1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/large.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/blackzook/largeyu.jpg

Now it’s got all the good bits I had better learn how to ride.

[pan]

You're looking much better riding around on it than you did a few months back. It's not suprising what a good front end can do to your riding confidence... :ayyy:





where we found a jet had vibrated out and was sitting in the float bowl...

It's always a loose screw somewhere that's causing the problem, isn't it? :)

[Captain]

Good looking bike, I'm sorry I didn't notice it at WP, odd as it stands out, and I would have loved to have a closer look :)

[Mr.Ed]

:notworthy: nuff said

[jace]

Nice colours mate,well done..:ayyy: