2CT or Power?

[Jake]

Howdy,

I've worn the snot out of my rear tyre, the front is still alive. Both are Powers fitted at the same time. I'm reading good things about the Power 2CT, and wonder if I'd be best off to replace the front at the same time if I go with the 2CT, though I don't really want to throw out a half worn Power front. Does anybody have an opinion about the 2CT compared to Power?


The 2CT is supposedly harder in the middle and softer on the sides, and to be honest, apart from the wear pattern (middle worn out faster despite no commuting or touring), I'd happily go with the Power again; I've never had a problem with traction that I could put down to the Powers, apart from once towards the end of a 45min session on the Oxley Raceway when the rear end got a little skatey.


I use this bike for weekend riding, and going forward hopefully a track day every 3-6 weeks. I only really care about performance in dry conditions.

So, what say you RATs? :confused1:

Cheers :ayyy:

[jasonbw]

according to the Michelin rep I chatted to you aren't accurate in your thoughts on the 2ct.

The centre isnt harder that the PP's.

The entire tyre is softer, the edge are just more softer than the centre.

Hope that helps, I'll be sticking to PP's, love the way the turn in and give you gentle reminders, but I cant comment on the 2ct's feel since I've never wanted to change away from PP's.

Cheers
JasonBW

[DanOz]

Howdy,

I've worn the snot out of my rear tyre, the front is still alive. Both are Powers fitted at the same time. I'm reading good things about the Power 2CT, and wonder if I'd be best off to replace the front at the same time if I go with the 2CT, though I don't really want to throw out a half worn Power front. Does anybody have an opinion about the 2CT compared to Power?


The 2CT is supposedly harder in the middle and softer on the sides, and to be honest, apart from the wear pattern (middle worn out faster despite no commuting or touring), I'd happily go with the Power again; I've never had a problem with traction that I could put down to the Powers, apart from once towards the end of a 45min session on the Oxley Raceway when the rear end got a little skatey.


I use this bike for weekend riding, and going forward hopefully a track day every 3-6 weeks. I only really care about performance in dry conditions.

So, what say you RATs? :confused1:

Cheers :ayyy:

Look mate,
I've the Metzelers Racetec on my Triple since 3k Kms, and they are fantastic tyres.
I had Pilot Power front and rear before, and the dynamic of the bike improved big time.... much much quicker to turn, and doesn't tend to come up under braking as on the Michelins.
I've done also 4 trackdays on them already and they are in much better shape compared to the Pilot Powers I had before. I think that these more sporty tyres like the racetecs are designed to work at much higher temperatures therefore they last longer if we go hard on tyres.
Ciao

[Zee]

PP's are an awesome tyre.
If you take 'em to the track, you will balance the centre road wear with the side track wear. Also, at 1.50's (EC) you should get 3-4 trackdays out of 'em with stock suspension on a 600.
I briefly looked at the 2ct's today at SPM and they looked a much pointier tyre then the standard PP...dunno if that's what you'd want for the road.

[Johnny]

Pilot 2CTs are dual compound, harder in the centre and softer on the edges, and is what 2CT stands for " two/dual compound technology".

If your wearing out the centre of your tyre first, then the 2ct is the way to go.

[jasonbw]

Hi Gixar, as above, yes, the 2ct is harder in the centre BUT, its saying its centre is 'harder' than its edge!! ... its all relative... the 'hard' centre is still softer than the pilot powers.

Thats from the Michelin reps, I specifically asked that due to the huge amount of confusion.

i.e. ON a CBR1000RR (heavy + fat bastard riding-me) I get 4,000K road k's from a PP rear and not much more from the front, I asked the rep to estimate what I'd get fro 2ct's (as a sanity check) he estimated I'd be lucky to get 1,500K

[Turtle]

Hi Gixar, as above, yes, the 2ct is harder in the centre BUT, its saying its centre is 'harder' than its edge!! ... its all relative... the 'hard' centre is still softer than the pilot powers.

Thats from the Michelin reps, I specifically asked that due to the huge amount of confusion.

i.e. ON a CBR1000RR (heavy + fat bastard riding-me) I get 4,000K road k's from a PP rear and not much more from the front, I asked the rep to estimate what I'd get fro 2ct's (as a sanity check) he estimated I'd be lucky to get 1,500K

Thats some seriously Low k's dude......i was talking to a tyre dude and he said the same, that the 2CT's were "PilotPower" in the centre and "PilotPower Race" on the edges....:ayyy:

[jasonbw]

Thanks Turtle, but I was told by the rep (read above) the 2ct's centre is softer than PP's ! Just dont want anyone buying it thinking they'll get the same k's on the centre section of the tyre than Pilot Powers... which is what you were told.

Who knows, maybe the rep was misinformed, but I think the data below off the michelin site backs up the reps statement of saying the 2ct is track use only, and wont last as long as the PP's when used on the road.

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004103801&codePage=2092004103801_25012006153838&lang=EN
http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004103725&codePage=2092004103725_07092004135921&lang=EN

All this boils down to one line. Buy the tyre that you can heat up to operating temperature! Simple.. so for me, I might get more grip from a Pilot ROAD than a 2ct for my street riding!

[Alex.]

i.e. ON a CBR1000RR (heavy + fat bastard riding-me) I get 4,000K road k's from a PP rear and not much more from the front, I asked the rep to estimate what I'd get fro 2ct's (as a sanity check) he estimated I'd be lucky to get 1,500K

Wow, that's very low k'ms mate. I got about 12k out of my last PP's including 2 trackdays.

[jasonbw]

You weigh half my weight :D, and this mileage was with me having the pressures too low (34r, 32f) I've since moved up to Michelins recommendation at Gardners and its seeming better but since the 4000k's was with a track visit I can't really tell.

[Turtle]

No worries...

[Jake]

Cheers, interesting mix of replies there :confused: :lmao: On goes a Power again then, might look at the 2CT or Racetec when the front's done, jasonbw that's some handy info BTW, thanks.

For the record, got about 7-8Kkm out of this one.

[gsx10]

I've never tried the 2CT or Power but I've had the Pilot Race a few times. They are great but take just a little bit to heat up. They feel sticky enough to really lean the bike over. Only downside is the price.. I'm finding on my Gixxer 1000 I'm going through 2 rears to the one front. Rear I'm getting around 3000km.

I'm thinking of trying the BT002's soon as they are much cheaper and meant to be just as good. Both 002's & Pilot Race aren't too crash hot in the rain though but who cares if you ride mostly in dry.

[Marcus]

Use your thumb nail and you will find that the 2CT is overall softer then the PP.

When they say its harder in the center, its relative to the sides of the 2CT not PP.

This goes for front and rear.

Its probably worth mentioning that you have a 400 which uses smaller tyres which limits your choice.

The 2CT front and PP rear should work well if your wearing your rear first. You might want to look into getting a stiffer rear spring as the weight transferring onto the rear prob isnt helping.

I wouldnt mix a DOT tyre with a sports tyre as the profiles will differ and geometry will be out a bit.

[Jake]

Yeah, won't be putting on a stickier rear until the front's ready too. Size-wise, I think the Metzeler, I'll have to look at the Sportec not the Racetec, the Michelins are fine though, no problems running a 160 on the rear from what I can gather.

[zenodamper]

Well, obviously the shop sells Michies where I am, and so peeps might think me biased.... but like WTF, gonna say it anyways - I lurve 'em - even them French 2CTs we hads a whiles back (the exploding ones [apparently]). Regularly get 5 ride days out of them, plus the commute to work and home again (70 clix round trip). Good warming up, good in the inclement stuff too... And more than reasonable mileage - do ppl say kilometre-age now?

[Johnny]

Cheers, interesting mix of replies there :confused: :lmao: .
Its great isnt it, the mix of replies, but even with that there is no, "Im right your wrong so stfu" attitude, but just the opinion of poster, love it :ayyy:

[jasonbw]

Sooo true Gixar, thats one of the GREAT things about this forum, everyone pretty much gets along nicely! Thanks to the admins for making this site happen!

Mileage, damn right, it should be kige or kilometerge or kage... yeah kage.. thats the go.

[zenodamper]

...but kilometres are just a conspiracy that makes us sound well fast.... (?!) :lmao:

[Marcus]

whats kige/kage?

[Turtle]

whats kige/kage?

:confused1:

[jasonbw]

read above <sigh> :D :D :D :D see Zenos post (#16)

[Marcus]

Sorry im really hung over.

But shouldnt it be klm/age :p

[Birdman]

i run a PP front and a Road 2CT rear, softer center than the old road with pretty much PP sides, have 12,000 k's on the rear now and probably has another 1000 left in it but i have to change it as it wont last a week in the snowies all in all a bloody great tire, no lack of grip and i would normally have gone through 3 tires in the same mileage.... or kilometreage as Zeno says ha ha

As much as i hate supporting that wanker Gardner its just an awsome tire!!!

[zRoYz]

I just buy them black round things :)

My opinion is thus as I have used all the tyres mentioned here except the new road 2 (its not called a 2CT like the power). My opinion takes into account my bike VFR800 & my riding style, everybody is different so will likes different things, so people should also take that into account.

Metzelers Racetec I don't like, grip level seems fine but find they let go without warning & when tyre 3/4 worn they let go even more. Price is there best selling point but I wear them out to quickly. Slow to warm up.

Pilot Powers I like more than the Racetec but find the feed back from the fronts a little less than what I like & have had allot of front end slides with these but nothing to make me soil my pants. Mileage is the best out of what I have used. Quick to warm up.

Diablo Corsa (not super corsa) one of my fav tyres & really would like to use the newer Diablo Corsa 3 but most places don't stock them wear I live except a big dealer I wouldn't buy a nut & bolt from. There feed back is what I like in a tyre & when there about to let go I normally already, ready for it, but they don't let go very often. Av warm up but low mileage.

BT002 great tyre & the new compound is even better but don't like the rear profile that much for road use but luv the fronts to death & best setup is one of these with a Power or Power 2CT on rear of my bike. The front feed back for me is second to none. Slow to warm up & low mileage.

Piliot Power 2CT current setup on my bike & like the rear tyre allot & the front seems good as well but took me awhile to like the front but still doesn't have the feed back I like compared to the Corsa or 002. Mileage can't comment yet but they do leave black lines out of corners so if that keeps happening maybe not to good (note to self lay off throttle). Best part is quick to warm up.

Few notes:
My bike is a V4 so has smooth power delivery.
I like to ride pushing the front so fast entry speed.
None of my views take into account wet weather grip as I don't push in the wet, I would rather sleep in my bed.
My av mileage for a rear tyre (as above) is 2500-5000kms, fronts I don't have to much problem with as my suspension helps them always out last a rear 2/3x.
I don't commute with my bike at all, it is purely for the fun factor which means twist that throttle.

[DanOz]

I just buy them black round things :)

CUT

Metzelers Racetec I don't like, grip level seems fine but find they let go without warning & when tyre 3/4 worn they let go even more. Price is there best selling point but I wear them out to quickly. Slow to warm up.

Pilot Powers I like more than the Racetec but find the feed back front the fronts a little less than what I like & have had allot of front end slides with these but nothing to make me soil my pants. Mileage is the best out of what I have used. Quick to warm up.

CUT


Could it be that these tyres behave/feel differently on different bikes?
I think so, as I trust what you're saying!
My triple improved massively moving from the PP to the Racetecs,
1) I used to "cook" my PP at Ridedays while the Racetecs don't have any problem with Track temperatures

2) The bike is much more reactive on Racetecs, while it was more "stable" on the Michelins but also a bit "harder" to turn;

3) The Michelins had an evident tendency (on my bike) to pull the bike up under braking. This "pull" magically disappeared with the Racetechs... therefore it was the tire and not the bike.

Next time I'll try the Pirellis.... but my understanding is that Pirelli and Metzeler is almost the same thing :)

[zRoYz]

Could it be that these tyres behave/feel differently on different bikes?


In my opinion I would say your 100% on the money there & also add individuals different riding styles & feed back they prefer :ayyy:

[Turtle]

Next time I'll try the Pirellis.... but my understanding is that Pirelli and Metzeler is almost the same thing :)

Made by the same company but totally different tyres..:)

[Birdman]

I just buy them black round things :)
the new road 2 (its not called a 2CT like the power).

ok the website calls them road 2 but mine definately had 2CT stamped into the rubber

or have they re badged them since i got mine which would have been one of the first batch into the country

[Turtle]

Who are you calling a BIATCH ??

[DanOz]

Made by the same company but totally different tyres..:)

You'll find several people on the net, including people in the tyre industry who state that "Metzeler is nothing more than a rebadged Pirelli. Same build constuction, same compounds, just different grooving patterns"

:confused1:

[zenodamper]

In my opinion I would say your 100% on the money there & also add individuals different riding styles & feed back they prefer :ayyy:

Could it be that bikes all have different ways of dealing with force or camber thrusts from the tarmac - and with more or less weight being pushed into each end of the bike? :)

If you got bad weight placement and worn clapped out sussies, some brands are gonna feel well kosher - but stick same one on to a fork which alredy catchs force readily and hello "patter city"... Happened to me once when I had done all the development on some piston kits from the USA (P) on SC1/2s, and then ran short of rubber track-side and had to stick on some Japanese tyre; which then left the front not turning and pattering through a braking set of esses... (1/2 turn off was needed in end...) :lmao:

[Jake]

Its great isnt it
...
Amen, good reading :ayyy:

[Turtle]

You'll find several people on the net, including people in the tyre industry who state that "Metzeler is nothing more than a rebadged Pirelli. Same build constuction, same compounds, just different grooving patterns"

:confused1:

I doubt it......I have used plenty of sets of Pirellis ( DiabloCorsa and SuperCorsa) and Metzelers (RaceTecs) and they are totally different compounds. The Super Corsa's get half the amount of k's as the Racetecs....

[Marcus]

State manager for pirelli said "they are different, just different"

Some people have a preference, some dont...

Roys comments are interesting, I get better mileage (and so do a lot of others) from the K1/2 combo then PP's, well the fronts about the same but the rear without doubt. I didnt start to wear the center of my rear PP until I got a nail and it wouldnt hold more then 23psi.

I think they warm up pretty quickly for a DOT and have pretty good grip cold- enough for me to scrape on as long as the surface is half decent:confused1: Its interesting as I felt I was faster on a cold PP but lean angles are a different story... I notice a lot of people in ireland and the UK use them and I assume its due to their colder climate.

For me, im going to be running race take off's for a bit, so whatever I can get cheap with decent tread.

[Captain]

Speaking of dual compounds, did you know that Dunlop are also bringing out a dual compound tyre? It's the Sportmax RoadSmart and will replace the D205 and D220.

Hot off the press (I hope - please don't tell me it's old news ...)

[Captain]

Found an interesting video too: Here (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1077096434&channel=711881422) Which doesn't seem to work. Hmmm... strange

Try going to: http://www.brightcove.tv and do a search on "sportmax roadsmart"

Ah, forget it. here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Agz_iwOfxw

[DanOz]

Speaking of dual compounds, did you know that Dunlop are also bringing out a dual compound tyre? It's the Sportmax RoadSmart and will replace the D205 and D220.

Hot off the press (I hope - please don't tell me it's old news ...)

My understanding is that this tyre competes in a complete different segment (Sport Touring) compared to what we are discussing here.
The Roadsmart compares with the Metzeler Z6, or the Pilot Road2 and so forth... not comparable with the Pilot Powers 2CT or the Racetecs from Metzeler (Track /FastRoad)...
:ayyy: