Calling all ZX10R riders

[Big Lunt]

Hi All,

I am not sure if any other zx10R riders have issues with their front brakes. I was told to not worry about pads, lines etc and rather get a replacement master cylinder.

Has anyone done the change and can they tell me that the front brakes are better? I like a firmer hard bite on my front brakes, zx10r is late on the bite and also feels like I am about to pull the lever to the bar (and it is adjsted to the shortest travel)

Any help would be greatly appreciated by all

[Kat00]

ZX10`s front brakes are crap.
I`m not putting any shit on the bike at all in saying that.
Brembo master cylinder will fix your problem.

[quickchick]

Hatter could help but he's away.

Maybe Hayden (Birdman) can help you.

[Kat00]

Yeah Hatters 05 was crap, lever on the bars after a few laps......Brembo will fix it....no doubt.

[Cleverlie]

Get a new master cylinder, everything will be sweet, If not then get the zx14/the newer zx6 calipers and braided lines and you'll stop on a dime.

[Big Lunt]

Cheers guys

Cleverlie have you done the brembo conversion on yours?

Would the ones dungbeetle is selling be the right one??

I have done some research and it would seem that pads and lines really do not make a big impact and everyone is pointing at the master cylinder.

[Cleverlie]

I've only got braided lines and since i get massive brake fade im learnt to hardly ever use them and reply on entering corners under engine braking.

I'm going to get a better braking system on the bike when ive got the money but from all the info ive done researching is what i said.

Brembo is the way to go, If the ones dungy is selling fit then by all means get them.

[zRoYz]

The ZX10R before 06 has shit front brakes due to sub standard master cylinder, either get an 06 master cylinder or aftermarket & your problem will be solved.

Braided lines & all the different pads in the world wont fix the problem only a master cylinder change will, there is thread here you can buy a brembo that would be perfect http://nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3974

Birdman is :beer: Turkey here & concurs as he has a ZX10R 04 with an 06 master cylinder & doesn't have the problem.

[KW4K4]

There are two issues with the 10's breaks - either lever travel (pulling it all the way into the bars as big lunt describes) or break fade after heavy use or both.

The issue is not the master cyclinder - it is the calipers themselves. I had both the symptoms described above on my 06 10.

Replacing the MC along with braided lines will fix the lever travel, but the actual fade issue is only fixed by replacing the calipers.

I have found the cheapest and easiest solution is to buy a complete front break kit off an cannabilised 07 zx14 or 07 zx6 (NISSIN) and add braided lines. Wreckes are selling them on fleabay for between 250-350 USD shipped, including both calipers, and the MC which is about what you will pay for a brembo folding master cyclinder on its own.

The difference is the way the breakline is attached to the calipers, which is why earlier (05) 636 Tokico Calipers dont exibit the same issue as the 05 06 10 Tokico caliper.

if you want to knock yourselves out check out "The Great OEM ZX-10R – ZX-6R – ZX-14 Front Caliper Debate" on zx-10r.net or any other of similar threads on kawiforums, ksrc and the like.

The summary reads - you can use your stock rubber hose, your stock MC and swap out the calipers and you will have phenomenal stopping ability. Add the 14 or 6r MC + lines + pads then you have stopping similar to the brembo monoblock stoppers on the ducati

[jasonbw]

KW4K4, I believe the 06 is very different to the 05 and prior, so maybe that advice might not be applicable???
anyway..
Theres a thread about this too in the past, pop into search and try to find it, basically boils down to what was said above! Change out the master cylinder!

[KW4K4]

Hear what you are saying but have read enough posts now to know the issues applies 04-07 zx10r.

04-05 tockico and non radial MC.
06-07 Tockico and radial MC.

replace MC will fix travel, but grab a handful for a few laps and all the bikes will exhibit fade.

Trust me on this one

(in fact i think i started the original thread you may be referring to when this started to happen after a putty ride and a track day at OP)

[zRoYz]

replace MC will fix travel, but grab a handful for a few laps and all the bikes will exhibit fade.


If you have good lever feel (travel) you wont get fade unless your pads/rotors aren't creating enough friction, so they would be the problem in that example.

humm the problem is as normal no 2 bikes can be the same, I wouldn't think the radial calipers are to blame due to some simple logic. A caliper is mainly just a hydraulic ram nothing more & when hydraulic pressure applied the force is transmitted through the ram pistons to the brake pad surface. There are no extra parts installed into casting (caliper body) all you have is pistons which are sealed in caliper bores via a seal which whole purpose is to seal fluid & allow piston to move in/out within caliper bore & a dust seal which is there to stop brake dust from damaging main seal.

There are so many other factors that come into play that can cause brake fade:
1. wheel balance (harmonic vibration can cause pistons to retract to much from rotor surface)
2. worn or warped rotors
3. worn wheel bearings
4. to much play between axle & wheel bearings
5. radial caliper alinement to rotor (rotor surface to pad surface slightly kinked)

There can also be the problem of heat transfer though pad heating fluid to a point it boils but most modern bikes & fluids should prevent this but still does happen. This is why when you remove pads there is normally a extra plate between pistons & pads to help shield that heat transfer.

Now a normal bike master cylinder doesn't move much fluid at all so relies on pads to be in contact with rotors so most of the fluid it moves applies clamping force to rotors, if it has to move pads at all towards rotors due to slightest gap you lose lever travel & clamping force. This is why at times racers will do a setup pull on lever, let go & then grab a handful. This is also why braided lines are fitted because they don't expand once force is applied within hydraulic system so all fluid moved is applied to pads.

This is why people fit larger master cylinder pistons to move more fluid but you can't go to far or you lose to much feel & it is an exact science.
I don't have the answer to each problem with ZX10R but do feel in most cases fitting a up sized piston master cylinder with good leverage like a radial master cylinder with braided lines should go allot of the way to fixing most problems so long as everything I listed above is spot on.

Birdman isn't a small person & does ride his ZX10R hard on track & has been to PI & he had no problems at all with his brakes which only have the 06 master cylinder & braided lines fitted to his 04.

[Turtle]

The ZX10R before 06 has shit front brakes due to sub standard master cylinder, either get an 06 master cylinder or aftermarket & your problem will be solved.

Braided lines & all the different pads in the world wont fix the problem only a master cylinder change will, there is thread here you can buy a brembo that would be perfect http://nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3974

Birdman is :beer: Turkey here & concurs as he has a ZX10R 04 with an 06 master cylinder & doesn't have the problem.

Even George's 2006 ZX-10 had ordinary brakes, they were a little better with Braided lines but compared to the Blade, you had the really sqeeze them to stop quickly................Buy Dungy's BREMBO !!!

[Birdman]

ok if you can afford the Brembo buy it

On my ZX10-R which is an 04 - 05 when building i bled the brakes 3 times because of shit feel i thought air was in lines and this was with braided lines.

I sourced an 07 master for my bike and feel is awesome now and havent had any brake fade yet at either OP, EC or PI even with the smaller disks its stops better than my SP1 brakes but then it should being radial