CBR1000 Stck vs Arata slip on, mapped

[Birdman45]

Did one onf the guys from the forums bike the other day........ was surprisingly low in stock form, but as I pointed out, they all tend to get to the same point after the mods, but the gains are more or less, dpeneding on what you start with. Still, not bad for a stock bike vs Stock, Arata slip on and PC mapped to suit. Enjoy.

[slow bro]

Trevor did you ever find the torque graph for my bike?:Kat00: :ayyy:

[clarkey]

Trev-Lyin in wait for my 954 goodies,any news????:eyecrazy:

[zRoYz]

Can I put you on the spot here & ask some really blunt questions & would also like blunt answers not long winded.

I have a CBR1000RR 2004 track bike & at the moment it is dead stock motor performance wise except for flapper mod & 520 conversion with lower gearing (T43 on rear, standard T40). I have opened up standard rear can for better flow which isn't perfect but seems to have some effect. I went to lower gearing due to nothing down low & has improved things but I still find the bike very slow to pick up revs from 4000 to woot without slamming down another gear & first is just to harsh.

My questions are;
1. My performance level as a rider is nowhere near bike performance now, so can the Power Commander tune a bike to suit a rider or just plain performance.
2. The CBR1000RR has a very good set of headers from what research I have done (which isn't much) is there any value in going the extra mile for a full system other than a weight saving if bike track day use not to win races.
3. Depending on answer Q2 what exhaust can have you seen best results from for the CBR1000RR.

What makes me ask is I went the pc dyno treatment with my 04 VFR & I would have been better spending the money on something else.

[Vegas]

I have heard that the jardine RT1 is very good on the CBR1K, I was recently looking in purchasing one, reserch tells me I can get one delivered from the states for $600 in titainium with the carbon double end cap.look it up on you tube they have a video demo on there that I have seen.

[Turtle]

I think the best gains are from Micron or Arata Systems.....

[zRoYz]

I think the best gains are from Micron or Arata Systems.....

I think Arata pipes have the best note on a inline 4 & from what I have seen there very well made.

My main aim is what is best bang for buck with my track bike which I don't need to have the bling pipe, I want the bling on my road bike because I'm vein like everybody else & if my bike looks good I feel good. Track bike I want to spend the least amount of money on the best possible gains so is a pc only worth installing if you free up gas flow & factory map not cutting it or will it make a worth while improvement on it's own.

For my example I will use my VFR, the after market cans & pc with dyno map make a difference but it's not a major one in the fact I can disconnect pc & feel no real difference (if I hit vtec mid corner & I'm at pace with pc map bike will leave black lines, no pc no black likes but exit speed more or less same). I noticed a major difference with aftermarket can, but next to nothing extra with pc install & dyno. When I have spent over $1.5K on pc & dyno time the investment in my eyes was a fizzer. I'm no expert on EFI which is reason I go to someone & it maybe different story with a inline 4 but to say I'm sceptical of the pc worth is a understatement.

[Turtle]

I think Arata pipes have the best note on a inline 4 & from what I have seen there very well made.

My main aim is what is best bang for buck with my track bike which I don't need to have the bling pipe, I want the bling on my road bike because I'm vein like everybody else & if my bike looks good I feel good. Track bike I want to spend the least amount of money on the best possible gains so is a pc only worth installing if you free up gas flow & factory map not cutting it or will it make a worth while improvement on it's own.

Roy a Power Commander was the best thing i've ever done to a bike......the difference was masive !!!! It used to 'power up' in 2nd but with the PC it 'powers up' in 3rd !!!!

[zRoYz]

Roy a Power Commander was the best thing i've ever done to a bike......the difference was masive !!!! It used to 'power up' in 2nd but with the PC it 'powers up' in 3rd !!!!

you been playing Power Rangers with Slow Bro again :lmao:

so say your doing a roll on in second your bike will just lift with no clutching etc, thats what I want to here, mine does it but to high up the rev range due to slow pick up.

[Turtle]

you been playing Power Rangers with Slow Bro again :lmao:

so say your doing a roll on in second your bike will just lift with no clutching etc, thats what I want to here, mine does it but to high up the rev range due to slow pick up.

Before the PC you had to have the revs right to power it up( in 2nd), now i can power it up in 2nd at just about any RPM, and 3rd is now like 2nd used to be......Power rangers ROCK !!!!! what are power rangers ??

[zRoYz]

Power rangers ROCK !!!!! what are power rangers ??

Idiots that run around in colored suits fighting rubber monsters, but its not porn :lmao: I wish I didn't know these things but kids crying after I removed there noisy power ranger toy gun batteries enlightened me to the existence of these things.

[Kat00]

What makes me ask is I went the pc dyno treatment with my 04 VFR & I would have been better spending the money on something else.

Ive had a PC & custom map change 1 bike dramatically and yet 2 others do bugger all.

Cams might suit your bottom end problems better then tuning......but I know 3/5s of fuck all.

[Birdman45]

"My questions are;
1. My performance level as a rider is nowhere near bike performance now, so can the Power Commander tune a bike to suit a rider or just plain performance.
2. The CBR1000RR has a very good set of headers from what research I have done (which isn't much) is there any value in going the extra mile for a full system other than a weight saving if bike track day use not to win races.
3. Depending on answer Q2 what exhaust can have you seen best results from for the CBR1000RR."

Firstly, I dunno how you can leave black ,lines out of a "mapped" corner, but nothing from no map, yet the exit speed be the same, LOL But anyway, maybe the wheelspin?? LOL Kidding.

At the risk of travelling down Kat's road again, who did your VFR? The difference the mapping makes should be the same on all bikes, BUT maybe the comparitive feel is different,........ maybe. The CBR in the graph here had gained more than what I would expect, but in saying that, it started from a pretty low base figure, which is usually the way it works, "Smallz" is pretty happy with it, so maybe ask him what he thinks etc....

to your answers:

The PC isn;t about "performance" as such, it is about rideability. It isn't a "bolt on supply of power", it makes the bike eaiser to ride, gives more progressive and linear power delivery, better on/off throttle and more power, but only as a consequence of getting your fueling right, IE: your bike makes the power it should anyway, but doesn't due to fueling.

2: Thsi is the first CBR I have done with a slip on that gained that much h.p. Usually I see 3-4 with slip ons and 10-12 with the system, so no I don't think the headers are that good , as you can gain a fair bit more with them....... in saying that, you need the right headers, as for example, Yosh headers give NO gains over their slipon, nothing at all. I would look at Arata, Sato, Ti Force, M4, Akra, Micron or Leo Vince, in that order. The only prob with the Akra/Microns is the "serpent" headers they run, and this gives dips down low, great peak gains, but like I said, dips down low, where as the Arata and Sato will gain from start to finish. The weight saving you mentioned also is massive, the full Arata system weighs approx 5kg's, that is the whole deal inc the muffler. LOL

and lastly 3: see above. Ian Irving who builds most of the beter or higher running supoersport and superbike mototrs in the Oz championship has had a "reference system" for each bike he builds, that makes the most h.p for that given model and he has told me that on every one of those he has seen , the Arata beat that reference system in each case........., pretty impressive............ The Sato would be very close also, but the muffler is at an angle (ie slightly crooked), other than , very similar. Hope this helps.

[zRoYz]

Birdman45 thank you for reply :)

As stated my CBR1000RR is stock, would it be wise to wait till I fit a full system like the Arata before adding a pc or is it worth fitting a pc now (I understand the bike would need map for stock & then another when ex fitted).

VFR model I have with the vtec kicking in causes most of the black line drama when it sometimes hits with a kick, I'll be changing to catless headers soon when I find some so hope you want a crack at sorting the tune out.

[Turtle]

Birdman45 thank you for reply :)

As stated my CBR1000RR is stock, would it be wise to wait till I fit a full system like the Arata before adding a pc or is it worth fitting a pc now (I understand the bike would need map for stock & then another when ex fitted).

VFR model I have with the vtec kicking in causes most of the black line drama when it sometimes hits with a kick, I'll be changing to catless headers soon when I find some so hope you want a crack at sorting the tune out.

Give him ya bike and get it done Dude........its well worth it.

[Birdman45]

well see , the Cat makes it harder to map also I rekon. Dynojet say that the Cat doesn't change the oxygen content of the air/fuel mix, so hence doesn't alter the mapping/air:fuel readings etc, BUT if that is 100% so, why do all the manufacturers that put 02 sensors on the bikes, have them before the Cat? Well, I rekon it's because wile they are right about the 02, what it does do is delay the reading a tad, so while the dyno is measuring the air/fuel as it runs through an rpm etc, by the time it hits the sensor after the CAT, it's always a step behind, if that makes sense. I say this coz I have tested it on a couple of bikes, written a map for it with the CAT and then without (same system, just removed the cat) and the mapping is different, and works better without the cat. That is the mapping gains, not the actual removal of the cat itself. I'm getting confusing now so I'll stop. LOL

[Kimbo]

Birdman. It's not confusing. it's interesting The funny thing is car manufacturers put the O2 sensor before the cat ,I would think the closer to engine the quicker the variances in voltage of the sensor and the quicker the cpu would change the pulse of the injector to get away from a dangerous leaning out or a rich mixture that have pollution levels up , or driveability problems. You wouldn't put the sensor down near the rear muffler because of the lag time .The cat no matter how good will have some sort or pressure drop across it and also with the conversion there has got to be a small amount of O2 variance. This being in a closed loop system. Maybe also the shape and size would change the scavenging of the system, so removal will change the mapping enough to be noticable.

[Birdman45]

well on a bike, the 02 sensor does not causethe bike to add fuel if need be, it only ever leans the bike out. It isn't an instantanious thing either, you'll find once your bike settles at a rpm and given TP, the bike will start to lean out to around 14:1-14.7:1 while held there, but if you blip the throttle or gas it, it reverts back to the fueling the ecu is giving it, until it steadies and starts to lean out again.

And yeah, the closer the better for sure......... and what is good about alot of the bike now, is that they have 02 sensors on them, and so , no need to jam probes down the muffler etc, I can just use the bung from the stock sensor and plug the sensor from the dyno straight into that, way better mapping also.

[gazza414]

The narrow or widebaqnds are placed before the CATS due to operational issues with having to deal with extreme temps..after CAT

delay issues are always going to be there especially with dyno's that run a sniffer down the pipe and rely on the pump getting the gas back to the wideband under the chassis of the dyno..I have done some back to back's using a DJ250 with sniffer and a wideband in the collector and data logged..slight delay but for what its worth..ummm

there are more issues with the wideband or sniffer being to close to the end of the tailpipe due to the reversion of the outside air at low rpm's and with singles and twins for that matter.

[Birdman45]

yeah, now most of the bikes have 02 sensors on them anyway, I always try and use the bung that is already there, and just run the air/fuel from that, always better.......... but in saying that as long as your pump is maintained well and the filter is clean etc, it gets pretty close, down low or wwhen the bike revs out quickly it can trick itself up a bit, but other than that, better than not mapping that is for sure. But getting less and less I have to use the pump anyway as again, most of the bikes these days have the 02 sensor running that I can pull out and use anyway.