Turn 12, EC.. 600CC

[Kris]

Guys, Im struggling with turn 12.. Not sure where I need to be to maxmimise exit speed.. my top speed on the straight at the end of the grandstand is around 232km/hr on my 600, -1 front, +1 rear.

How do quick guys (low 40s) take turn 12 to keep their speed up ? what kinda speeds are you guys hitting at the end of the grandstand on a 600??

I think im losing ALOT of time here..

[Birdman45]

run right out on to the concrete section and as you get on the throttle, open it harder and earlier as you come on to the straight. LOL As usual, the secret to going faster usually involves either/or of those two things.

[Sutto]

I find taking 11 and 12 as one turn, by the time I'm on the apex of 12 I'm coming up on speed and taking everyone on the in/outside.

[Cedric]

my top speed on the straight at the end of the grandstand is around 232km/hr

Same with me... keen to see how the quick guys do it..

[SLAC]

WOT earlier, most average riders will carry similar mid corner speed in/out, its getting on the gas earlier than others.. On a 600 nail it hard as you dare as early as you dare... Simple really.. Doing it is another thing though.. I was lucky enough to be overtaken just before i tipped into 10 by S/Giles and i carried similar mid corner speed, but exiting he was heaps earlier on WOT. I was entering 1 and he was at T2

[WET4URacing]

WOT ? slac please enlighten

[WET4URacing]

oh i got it. too many turkeys

[Cedric]

Mm. I remember comparing racechrono data with a fairly brisk rider (low 4X.0s); the difference of speeds between him and I wasn't as marked as I expected except for a couple of areas but a couple of km/h here and a few more there really make up the time..

Obviously the tyres are up to it as we were both using Bridgestone slicks but it's the skill in controlling the bike when the front/rear is out of line which is key to quicker lap times. He was obviously more comfortable when the rear was spinning up or the front pushing than I was but how I gain those skills without sliding round a dirt bike/motard is beyond me. I shit meself...

[Stu23]

1 tenth of a second only per corner will place you over a 1 second behind....do the math...you only really talking about small differences really so if your a 1/10 slowe into it caryy a little less mid corner speed theres another 1/10 and say they are a bit quicker gettng on the gas theres another 1/10 ( not including the speed he gaines as he carries it all the way down the straights. so say 3/10 per corner !! 12 corners say 3 1/2 seconds per lap not including there straight line increase too by carrynig more speed...only tenths here an there make up a lot....frustrating isnt it .. well it does my head in anyway lol

As for turn 12... I have never had a bike so sideways and yet come back into line on me so please be careful..saying get on the gas earlier and doing it well is a diferent matter

Stu

[Fezz]

Also it depends how you take it.

A lot of the faster guys run on the other side of the join in the track so they can then turn in and get the bike stood up earlier, which means getting on the gas quicker.

[jasonbw]

Wetty: WOT = Wide Open Throttle

Kris, are you getting on the gas between 11 and 12 to keep the revs up? What exactly are you looking at when you're just before halfway thorough T12?

[Kat00]

I'm with Slac, brake latter, or better still, stay on it longer........ WOT earlier on any corner and you lap times will fall.They do a drill at CSS to stand the bike up faster on exit so as you can get on it earlier.

[WET4URacing]

yeh yeh i got it b4. cheers 4 the confirmation.

[WET4URacing]

oh yeh just hold it on or get a faster bike or build a better engine

[Captain]

My problem with T12 begins at T11.

[KTM_Paul]

My problem with Turn 12 begins at turn 1 ;)

[Birdman45]

I can't remember hitting the brakes trough 10/11 and into 12, I would drop it down a gear or two as I switched direction and just let the bike push out to the other side of the track and like someone else said, the deeper you go in to the corner, the more you need to stand it up and get on the gas early and the bike will be more upright.... it's hard to explain. I tell ya though, the biggest difference you will find is what gear the guys are doing these things in, their corner speed and how early they are back on throttle. Watchin an onboard video of Roly on his R1 around the creek, I soon realised I changed far too many gears and far too often, they just hold it to the limiter and until they HAVE to change up and and then if they don;t, there's a fair bit of engine braking from way up there, again, less gear changes from not having to change back down again etc........... make sure you are in the right gear to get on to the straight, most people will be in too high a gear and won't get the drive they need to get a good top speed at the end of the straight........

But if you are not doing low 40's, you are not getting sideways or having the front step out etc yet..... if you are, there's something wrong. LOL

[DanFX]

stay on it, looooooose

[Kris]

Thanks guys, so yeah i dont brake in 11/12 but drop from 4th to 3rd for turn 10, leave arse off set/setup for 12 after 11... Jason, im looking at the roof of the grandstand when im in T12... i try and get the head down and push the bike away to stand it up as quick as I can so I can pin the throttle....

be nice to know what fast guys get at the end of the straight on a 600... or even what their corner speed is in turn 12

jason: think i might be coasting in 3rd through 11/12 hmm

[Belinda]

be nice to know what fast guys get at the end of the straight on a 600... or even what their corner speed is in turn 12

'suppose you could ask Falco, but then that wouldn't be very accurate. He would probably be held up by some of the slower riders in red group :lmao: :stirthepot:

[Kris]

Also it depends how you take it.

A lot of the faster guys run on the other side of the join in the track so they can then turn in and get the bike stood up earlier, which means getting on the gas quicker.

Might try this!!

[Mr.Ed]

I didn't have a gps last time but I was following Lucas001 and he was hitting 232km/h down the straight... And that's on a bone stock road R6 '08. Times were on the mid-to-high 50's, so I'd say you should definitely see a higher top speed on your bike... either that or you're braking too early into T1.

[Kris]

GPS says 232 :( sometimes a tad slower.... Just in the process of uploading a video which shows a few laps. Lots and LOTS of mistakes now I look at it, not apexing 5,9,12 etc etc but its been a good learning tool!

[Cedric]

T10 is the ducks nuts, last time I rode I had people riding round the outside of me still accelerating to T11.. unbelievable

[DanFX]

Might try this!!

that is the hot line, fezz has just given it all away!!!
mine hits 245 most days

[1down5up]

turn 1 is where you will make most time around the creek

[Kris]

Dan, can i see some of your chrono data?

[Marshy]

Dunno what that line through turn 1 on the opening lap was about, but apart from that it looked pretty good. Thanks for posting.

[Kris]

You mean lap after i pull out? yeah totally fucked it up :( see so many mistakes, how pathetic!!!

[zoltanp1967]

I was lucky enough to be overtaken just before i tipped into 10 by S/Giles and i carried similar mid corner speed, but exiting he was heaps earlier on WOT

don't forget, that works bikes have rev related traction control. so once you're used to it, i am told, and have the skill and balls, it's more reliable in WOT in shooting out of corners without turfing you. I friend of mine riding shawn's 07 bike was saying that he was chasing .1 sec per lap compared to shawn, with video of both in various corners oversampled to see the diff, and it was in the tilt of the head and minor body movements minutely changing bike balance. .1 sec per corner, x 12 corners = 1.2 sec per lap!

take advice with caution: trying to do it and not having the setup or skill (like I don't) but trying to achieve a goal over one's immediate abilities usually results in injury. I had someone chatting to me about using the back brake to limit spin coming out of corners, and i had a go and broke my collarbone....

z

[HYPE]

IMO

gain & carry as much pace from T9 and flick it into T10, run to outer T11 to late inner of T12 .. progressively opening the throttle whilst at lean and let the bike stand itself up as you re seat yourself... tuck everything in and short shift every cog you have...

on average the R6 nudges over 260 (GPS) down the straight but i'm sure with a better run out of 12 and a later entry to T1 there'd be a couple more clicks in there

[Captain]

No braking through T10/11? Not possible, c'mon.

[HYPE]

No braking through T10/11? Not possible, c'mon.

why?

i don't brake through there.... swap down a cog ready for 11

admit that i've slid the front end whilst throttling & flicking direction but at my pace most the time the bike stays settled..

[Captain]

why?
because it's unbelievable ... as in 'amazing' kind of unbelievable. I can accept not braking through T1, but at T11?
I accept that I'm too slow through there, that I brake too much .... but NO braking? wow. and interesting :thinking:

[Marshy]

I don't brake there.....

[Wattie]

I don't brake there.....

at your recent pace, you dont need to brake anywhere :p

i think i brush the front a bit, then drop the gear on the change of direction, slam knee (sidestand, fairing, even gear lever at times) on inside ripplestrip of 11, and gas out to concrete.

[WET4URacing]

i pull back 2 gears 10-11. no brake pressure

[Stu23]

On the gas hard through 10 for as long as i dare then, stamp down 1 gear and flick left at same time for 11, run it out wide and haul it hard left trying to get on the gas as hard and as soon as possible using all the track and some on the exit for the shoot down the straight......dont know how fast i go down there !!! then down 1 gear and throw it into turn 1 riding the bumps then wide open at apex for the run to 2 as fast as i can :)

Stu

[WET4URacing]

S/sport kids use the limiter to slow the bike down thru 10 on the way to 11 using the gearing change when the bike is on its side.
keep it real cap :)

[Captain]

Can you change gear while the bike is on its' side? Is that safe?

[Kat00]

For the first time last trackday I did I usedthe brakes into T11, I was newly + 2 on the rear, WOT into T10 in 4th and touched the knee down in 10, first time too and by the time I got to 11 I was hauling arse, by my standard at 0least, never used to brake into 11, it's the +2 in my case, for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wattie]

Can you change gear while the bike is on its' side? Is that safe?

if done smoothly anything is possible.

[WET4URacing]

not changing gear . using the gearing change. when the bike is on its side the gearing changes (dia of tyre is smaller on its side)

[Kimbo]

shortshift while coming out of MG at the island while over on it's side, Changing up is ok , changing down while leaned over is not a great idea on any corner

[WET4URacing]

shortshift while coming out of MG at the island while over on it's side, Changing up is ok , changing down while leaned over is not a great idea on any corner

modern bikes let u do more

[Kris]

Will take alot of this on board, i usually just drop a gear into 11 as well, very light pressure on the brakes...

[jonoZRX]

shortshift while coming out of MG at the island while over on it's side, Changing up is ok
On my old bike I used to have to change up while leaned over on the exit of turn 8 at Wackyfield. I also flag marshalled on 9 at the 1-hour, and quite a few people (who were a lot quicker than me) were doing the same thing. Like Wattie said, you just need to be smooth, and be comfortable with a bit of a slide.

[jasonbw]

Jason, im looking at the roof of the grandstand when im in T12... i try and get the head down and push the bike away to stand it up as quick as I can so I can pin the throttle....
jason: think i might be coasting in 3rd through 11/12 hmm

Good item to be looking at there Kris, the grandstand. On a 600 if your revs drop you've got stuff all power....so get the revs up by getting on the throttle between T11 and T12 so when you open it up at the exit of 12 it'll respond.
Now that you'll be on the gas harder at the exit of T12 you might find the front lifting, be wary of holding tight onto the bars at that point... some people drag themselves back to the middle of the seat using the bars.. that'll rob you of some drive.

[Kris]

No way my bike will lift the front (think it has to do with the complete lack of ram air ducting etc, im addressing this as we speak) ive PINNED the throttle in 2nd.. nada... i need to work on the 11/12 bit it seems.. getting on throttle...!

[zenodamper]

Modern machines will do more, granted; but then so will older machines with modern parts carefully arranged onto them - it is possible to isolate all the reasons for why the evolution of our 'subject matter' sees more possible with the advancing of time.

I suppose the Q we could ask ourselves is why do we need to be smoother on some machines and less so on others, if or when attempting a down-shift mid-corner?; thus it follows that there is likely a reason for this phenomenon! (a mechanical one - sort of like forensic motion dynamics). If we agree that some machinery requires even more sensitive movements made to it once leaned over, then we have to admit for a reason for this being so - but why leave the mysterious reason undisclosed in the discussion? Why just gloss over it as if it isn't there...? Why not sort it out, as well as sort the rider's brain processing skills?

Of course riding a path, following a line; moving at all the appropriate moments and in all the appropriate ways is a predicate for riding one of these machines well; but of course there is more to it all than a lot of the answers we see commonly might tend to suggest - otherwise I would imagine they would have the riding instructors in the pits @ Moto GP weekends and so do less work on the machinery and its movement characteristics... (joking!)

Naturally I am not saying that riding instruction is bunk and feel it would be mighty unfair to be misquoted as such; but just to say that we cannot expect anyone to be able to follow a line through a turn with no air in their tyre (just an EG) - of course some riders will be capable of much much more, but to further underpin the point I am trying to make, where do we draw the line between machinery and its calibration and riders and their skill levels and/or sensitivity to things with our biases toward their enhancement?

I have definitely seen some very awesome riders struggle on some machines on circuits; was it suddenly that their skill level dropped? Did they cease to be whom they are? Why did they shine during a group bike test on some bikes and less on others? Why can't it be the machine that is unsuited and less so the person? Perhaps motorcyclists have masochistic tendencies!

(removing tongue from cheek now)

:lmao:

[Birdman45]

No braking through T10/11? Not possible, c'mon.

I didn't on my 929...... like I said, guys going faster use way more corner speed as well as everything else, it ain't just about TC and h.p.

And Kris, ram air has nothing to do with your bike not lifting the front out of corners.... it'll only come in to play at the end of the straight.

[Kris]

Trev, did you notice the lack of it on my bike when mapping??? Wetty/Zeno mentioned the bike runs SHIT without it.. did notice its sluggy under 5k. End of the straight? Oh :( read some stuff on 600rr, guys noticied results straight away..

[HYPE]

ran my 6RR without them once... it was bogged down low and lacked at the top end...

[Kris]

Im hoping the $100 bucks i spent to chase all the parts and a generous offer from a rat to give me a few of the other parts will mean more low end and more top end exactly as you say HYPE!

[Mr.Ed]

I did this to my old bike and I honestly think it improved a bit:
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=31057&highlight=intake&page=10
I also did the stacks:
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=31057&highlight=intake

Intake noise is much more noticeable too.

[SKIZZI]

there are some good you tube vids to see what lines faster guys take.

[DanFX]

where u been greg, see u at the track

[SKIZZI]

hey dan, ive been going slow for a year or so on a harley lol but im back on a honda again so ill definatley see you there :) might take me a while to get my times down to 46s again :/

[Mr.Ed]

GPS says 232 :( sometimes a tad slower.... Just in the process of uploading a video which shows a few laps. Lots and LOTS of mistakes now I look at it, not apexing 5,9,12 etc etc but its been a good learning tool!

Did you manage to upload any videos?

[Birdman45]

Trev, did you notice the lack of it on my bike when mapping??? Wetty/Zeno mentioned the bike runs SHIT without it.. did notice its sluggy under 5k. End of the straight? Oh :( read some stuff on 600rr, guys noticied results straight away..

Not saying it won't change anything, just saying that ram air doesn't have anything to do with it, at least not til the end of the straight. I can't remember now,, was too long ago, but once you get it sorted, if it effects it that much, then the fueling may then be out also....

[Kris]

May need to drop in again Trev and get you to do some magic!

[Kris]

Did you manage to upload any videos?

I did. Its so pathetic I removed it :) Just shows how CRAP i am.. embarassing!

[Mr.Ed]

I did. Its so pathetic I removed it :) Just shows how CRAP i am.. embarassing!


Oh great... YOUR lap is embarrassing? I'm burning my camera then!:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[Kris]

ive done about 12-13 track days and im still not hitting every apex!! Im sure you've not done that many :( Video is on Vimeo if you look for it ;)

[Mr.Ed]

Cheers!:ayyy: I'm impressed by how composed your bike is under brakes compared to mine... I definitely need to look into that. Both suspension and suspended (me) need a lot of work...

[jasonbw]

Kris, if anyone on RATs says they hit every one of their apex's every lap, they're lying.

[Kris]

Ed really? im braking too early as it is it seems.. bike is rather composed, has suspension work though...

jason I know but my mistakes in this video are just pathetic, no reason I should be so far away from some of the apexs....

[HYPE]

Kris, if anyone on RATs says they hit every one of their apex's every lap, they're lying.

that's a fair although unjustified comment, and sometimes they even hit other riders...

[Underground]

that's a fair although unjustified comment, and sometimes they even hit other riders...

Can you get your own apex confused with others? or work out some sort of deal mid corner? what about a barter system?

[Marshy]

UG!! You're back!! Good to hear from you.

[Underground]

UG!! You're back!! Good to hear from you.

Hello sweet cheeks, what did I miss?

[WET4URacing]

where have u bin. i cant take the piss allday by myself

[HYPE]

where have u bin. i cant take the piss all day by myself

c'mon.. it's been on auto-pilot for couple of weeks...

[Underground]

where have u bin. i cant take the piss allday by myself

Yeah, I heard there was some general muppetry going on, something about red wrist bands, overtaking and electricity.

[Mr.Ed]

Ed really? im braking too early as it is it seems.. bike is rather composed, has suspension work though...

.

Yeah, my suspension needs work (as do my skills) even though the bike is very stable around corners. My rear wheel will lock up with very little engine brake even though the bike is fitted with an OEM slipper clutch (sort of works, but can't really be trusted). It even locks up easier than it did on my 600RR without any slipper... It can obviously be dialed out to a degree with a blip on the throttle, but like I said I need to work on my skills as well! It could be me but I also feel the brakes on new bike are not as good as the ones on the old one.
All in all, I only really did 2-3 sessions on it since the first 3-4 were spent pretty much trying to get used to the GP shift... So I guess I won't know for sure till the 20th at least. ;)

[HYPE]

Y
. My rear wheel will lock up with very little engine brake even though the bike is fitted with an OEM slipper clutch (sort of works, but can't really be trusted).
It even locks up easier than it did on my 600RR without any slipper... It can obviously be dialed out to a degree with a blip on the throttle

somewhat a reflection on your susp set-up and possibly even your chain tension... worth a look-in

[HYPE]

Yeah, I heard there was some general muppetry going on, something about red wrist bands, overtaking and electricity.

LOL ... don't forget the WOT,COG, TB, TC, ABS & GP

you've got some catching up to do!

[Mr.Ed]

somewhat a reflection on your susp set-up and possibly even your chain tension... worth a look-in
Yup. I'll have to have her set up to my weight at least before the 20th. I didn't do it last time because I only picked up the bike on the very same morning I was going to EC!! Plus I was having nightmares trying to get used to the GPshift so it wasn't till after lunch that I started to really notice that. But re chain tension, I didn't know it could cause the rear wheel to lock up... I'm assuming that's because if too tight it would hinder the suspension travel?:thinking: I had the tires balanced before first session so I assumed the guy at EC had the tension right. I never really checked to be honest.

[Foghorn]

A few of us had a chat in the shed yesterday about T12, Captain said he braked, Marshy ( I like Marshy, he's a man of few words in the shed but those uttered are gold ) said didn't. Honestly I thought I did, well I do in Yellow Group because T10 & 11 tend to be a catchment area for slower riders. However the two sessions in Green Group I did just pinned it out of T9 dropped down to third with a touch of front brake just going into T10 ( I have a slipper ) flow through T11 out on to the concrete even just graze the astro into T12 and do the standup exercise from CSS Level II. Got no clue wether I'm doing it right but seems to work.

......Ugg's back!!!
For some off us he never went away

[Captain]

Honestly I thought I did ............. with a touch of front brake just going into T10 ....
Do you or don't you brake? Sounds like you do. I certainly don't brake going into T10; I do it at the change of direction just before T11, whilst downshifting. And I was wrong, it is just a 'touch'.

[Marshy]

Thanks Fog :D Captain, I followed you through ten/eleven, and I reckon that the amount you braked was little enough that you could get away with not braking if you tried it. Just a thought.

[Kris]

I brake a bit too.. going to use the change of direct and gear change from 4th to 3rd to slow...

[Captain]

Thanks Fog :D Captain, I followed you through ten/eleven, and I reckon that the amount you braked was little enough that you could get away with not braking if you tried it. Just a thought.
I am sure you are right mate. There are 3 places where I just can't help but touch the brake lever; heading into T1, T5 and T11.

[SKIZZI]

T5!!!! stop that NOW :)

[Birdman45]

Agreed, but I'd apply it to all 3. LOL Never braked for any of them unless I'd over cooked it.

[SKIZZI]

well with T1 i started off not using the brake at all but as i started backing off later and later i got to the point where i couldnt help but just feel it with my finger tips just to know its there.

[Captain]

I know, I know, I know ... I tell myself EVERY time I head into those turns (except T10, that's new). And yet I just can't help myself
:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

[Marshy]

I'm with ya on turn 1.... I need some brake there to make me feel safe. But as Skizzi says if you go in late enough you're gonna need some brake to make the turn, surely. Never turn 5; although I always feel like I want to just brush the brake there, I never do.

[DanFX]

full gas for T1, gotta love a little arse end wobble as u click from 6th to 5th

[Mr.Ed]

So NO brake whatsoever into T1? Just drop a gear between the 200-100m mark?? Dammm... That's gonna need some serious faith from my part. Maybe after Easter...:lmao::lmao:

[SKIZZI]

So NO brake whatsoever into T1? Just drop a gear between the 200-100m mark?? Dammm... That's gonna need some serious faith from my part. Maybe after Easter...:lmao::lmao:
yea on a 600 if you are backing off half way between the 200 and 100m mark no need to brake

[SKIZZI]

im doing my first trackday on a 1000cc on the 5th of april, anyone out there doing between 45s and 50s on a 1000cc care to tell me where they are backing off for T1 ?

[Stu23]

Wait till the end of the grandstand then down 1 and tip in just over the white line sort of T shaped, soon as you can back on the gas an feel the front end weave nder power as you exit wide open for 2, I lve it when i get it just right ( thats not as often as id like )

p.s if ur really brave theres a tarmac square past the grandstand that where the really quick 600 rider go to

[DanFX]

So NO brake whatsoever into T1? Just drop a gear between the 200-100m mark?? Dammm... That's gonna need some serious faith from my part. Maybe after Easter...:lmao::lmao:

no brake from 100m, most guys go close to the 50 haha
big kahunas

[SKIZZI]

thanks I dont think ill be brave just yet, the end of the grandstand seems brave enough with all the extra speed :)

[Mr.Ed]

no brake from 100m, most guys go close to the 50 haha
big kahunas

Ok, make that Easter 2015!:lmao:

I take T1 pretty late I was told last time but on a bike with stock gearing I'm seeing just a touch over 200 on the dash (no GPS) when I get back on the gas... I can tell there's room for more as I never even scare myself there, but to do it with no brakes... hmmmmmmmm I'll wait for Captain to do that first! :stirthepot::stirthepot:
:p

[lilninja]

I used to have issue with braking t5 & t10 until one day I realized I was only just touching them, not really washing off any speed but enough to unsettle the bike so I decided that instead of braking I would just tap the top of the lever with my fingers, so I was doing something with my fingers, (kinda like chewing on a pen is to a person quoting smoking,) after a while I Broke the habit, now t5 and especially 10 are great corners to overtake on.

[Birdman45]

Exactly...... once you work out that you CAN do this, all of a sudden time starts dropping and you are passing people where you weren;'t before.

As for where to brake, you watch any of the fast guys on 1000's and they're at the 100m marker before they back off........ and even then I doubt they use much if any front brake. Yeah you shit bricks going through there your first time but once you do it, you realise you could have actually gone in faster coz you have way more track to go on the exit before you need to worry. And that applies to the whole track, if you are coming out of turns and you're nowhere near getting to the very edge of the track on exit, you ain't goin fast enough. Once you are, it may then require bike set up to stop pushing you so wide etc... (if that is happening) and then start again, you'll be way faster. That and getting on WOT off every turn asap... you'll be faster in no time. Most guys think they wind on and wind on hard, but think about it next time you exit a corner, especially on a 600, coz the difference between 60-80% and WOT off a turn isn't gonna be huge, but you will drive off the turns harder and faster by doing it... consciously get to WOT as soon as you can off every turn.

[Birdman45]

So NO brake whatsoever into T1? Just drop a gear between the 200-100m mark?? Dammm... That's gonna need some serious faith from my part. Maybe after Easter...:lmao::lmao:

Just back off a lil earlier and so wash off that lil more speed until you know you can do it...... I used to go through there saying "Faaaark... faaaaaaaaaaark..... faaaaaaaaaarrrrk" in my helmet when I first started doing it, actually, pretty much all the time. Hahaha But every time I came out of it I still thought "fuk, could've gone later in to it, still got plenty of track coming out"..... but was an awesome feeling going through with your knee down and those words going through your head til you made it through. LOL I would be scared shitless of losing the front by going anywhere NEAR the front brake in to T1. But that's me, and I ain't fast by any means.....

[Dunno]

Just back off a lil earlier and so wash off that lil more speed until you know you can do it...... I used to go through there saying "Faaaark... faaaaaaaaaaark..... faaaaaaaaaarrrrk" in my helmet when I first started doing it, actually, pretty much all the time. Hahaha But every time I came out of it I still thought "fuk, could've gone later in to it, still got plenty of track coming out"..... but was an awesome feeling going through with your knee down and those words going through your head til you made it through. LOL I would be scared shitless of losing the front by going anywhere NEAR the front brake in to T1. But that's me, and I ain't fast by any means.....

Riding the 400 im used to keeping it pinned all the way through T1 with the throttle to the stopper. Last time out (Sept I think?) I rode Mr Bones' 600. All good until I had one of my moments & forgot I was on the faster bike. Just past the stand I thought "fuck this is fast". That instant the fear hit me.
"FUCK THIS ISNT MY BIKE"
I rolled off, tipped in & some how made it out the other side.
I shit myself. I had never hit T1 at that speed before & never leaned it so far through there either. RC showed a top speed of 228 just before I rolled off.
The rest of the day I tried to replicate the move but couldn't. Ive got no idea on a 1000 but on the 600 I don't brake. Just roll off & tip it in. Like DanFX said, how late to roll off depends on the size of your Kahunas :lmao:

[Linden]

Used to be full noise through 1 (only on the 620 Monster) until a rocker cover came undone (rear exhaust) and I stopped up at turn 2 with oil all over the back of the bike ... thank god for huggers ... nearly back but (after 2 1/2 years)

Depending on gearing I was normally back a gear but with higher revs (near top of power) when bike stood (larger diameter wheel) backup had drive plus makes the back feel more planted (go to far with this and the front gets light ... not good)

Turn 12 a Vtwin trick (or any toque bike - might work with a multi haven't ridden one seriously since 1986 - I hear they've changed a wee bit) is to stay in high gear (2-3 below peak power (max at 8.5)) and just drill it ... tractor mode until near upright just as power hits in

[Mr.Ed]

I'll definitely try and improve through there. Being the fastest part of the circuit I think there's lots of seconds to be saved if I can do it at 80% of what a racer does. I'll build into that little by little though... I'm not ready (or brave or skillful enough) to just go balls out there. I'll try and work on T1 on the morning sessions and on the T10/11/12 combo on the afternoon sessions. That's enough to keep me busy till the end of the year at least! :p
One question to those riding the R6 though, what gearing do you have on your bike? Is the -1/+2 a good compromise? My bike is +1 on the rear but with a 190/55 rear, so it pretty much even itself out to stock gearing I was told... does that sound right?

[Linden]

One question to those riding the R6 though, what gearing do you have on your bike? Is the -1/+2 a good compromise? My bike is +1 on the rear but with a 190/55 rear, so it pretty much even itself out to stock gearing I was told... does that sound right?

Gearing depends on individual speed rather than bike ... are you having to change for 1 corner just because cos its too high revs or too low revs

To allow youself to improve do any gearing changes so the bike will still have revs spare as you go faster WITHOUT needing different change points then as you approach the "I'm near red line" drop a tooth off the rear (or -1/+2) and start again

[Mr.Ed]

I guess I'll have to play a little with that then... I know that down the straight I barely use 6th. Maybe for a couple of seconds but not more than that...

[SKIZZI]

i just did -1 on the front on my honda, and change to 6th a little earlier instead of red lining 5th and i actually got quicker. i lost time by going -1 front +2 rear. as you get faster you start using more of 6th gear

[slow bro]

I guess I'll have to play a little with that then... I know that down the straight I barely use 6th. Maybe for a couple of seconds but not more than that...

+1......I'm changing the gearing before next trackday

[Foghorn]

+1......I'm changing the gearing before next trackday

I put a Driven 520 Pitch conversion on 3 TD's ago with 16 front, at EC I was hitting the rev limiter down the straight and having to make 3 quick gear changes.
On Monday had a 17 front which sorted that little problem, it will stay on for PI