motogp 2 slow at catalunya they could be slower than 125s on quick tracks

[1down5up]

Ryder Notes: Red Light District
by julian ryder
Thursday, February 18, 2010

A decent day's weather here at Catalunya gave us the first good look at Moto2—and it was s-l-o-w. Okay they haven't got the spec motor yet, but Stefan Bradl is currently slower than he was last year on his 125 (51.4 versus 52.0).

There were also a lot of crashes, the red light was on ten times (well, it seemed like it). Scott Redding got his first and last runs in as planned, all the rest were interrupted by red lights.

Fastest today was Japanese teenager Tomizawa with 1:49.5, Jules Cluzel was next with 1:49.6.

The 250 absolute lap record is 1:.45.0—an astonishing effort from Jorge Lorenzo back in '07, the best race lap was de Angelis in the same year with 45.9. Last year's pole was 1:46.7 by Hector Barbera.

ENDS
Ryder Notes: Moto2@Barca
by julian ryder, on the ground at Circuit de Catalunya
Friday, February 19, 2010

RSV's version of a Moto2 racer. The majority of the Moto2 bikes are still very slow.
image by julian ryder
The first look at Moto2 bikes en masse is really quite impressive. Some good teams have turned out some very interesting answers to the same question. The majority are Suter chassis with conventional twin spar design, very like the Moriwaki and the Kalex used by Sito Pons' team.

Although the Kalex is noticeably wider and higher. Tech 3 also have a simliar but M1 inspired design.
Shoya Tomizawa and his very smart Suter machine.
image by julian ryder

Moriwaki are supplying Fonsi Nieto's HolidayGym team and ex 125-world champ Tom Luthis' Interwetten team. Moriwaki are acting as a service operation rather than racing themselves, a new departure although tradition was upheld by Midori Moriwaki's silver high heels.

Some dissent from the norm comes from English firm Harris and Italians RSV. Harris are supplying just one team, the Antonio Banderas team that is fielding Kenny Noyes; RSV have two--the mighty Aspar squad and the Czech Cardion team.

Legendary Harris design is evident in their chassis.
image by julian ryder
Harris have gone for an interesting design with cast frame members bolted to a tubular cage around the steering head. This is a design that Steve Harris has been playing with for a while. I say tubes, but they started as solid rod and were then drilled to get the required stiffness.

RSV, led by ex-Rumi, ex-Altea engineer Salvatore Giorlandino, have a Bimota-like tubular lattice that they refer to as the 'Italian style.' I'm not arguing. Contrary to expectations the weather allowed a fair bit of track time this afternoon and although there were no official times, the best I heard about was yesterday's fastest man Tomizawa taking a couple of tenths off his time with Yuki Takahashi of Tech 3 joining him in the 1.49s along with Spanish Champion Miralles on the injured Roby Rolfo's bike.

Ex-racer Eskil Suter, who helped build the original Kawasaki MotoGP bike, the Foggy Petronas and others, stands with two machines he's helped father. Suter finished second in the '91 Daytona 250 race.
image by julian ryder
The class looks good but there will be some worry about the potential lap times. Teams get the spec motors for the next test at Valencia at the start of March, here they were using anything from a complete stock lump (stock bike in Talmacsi's case) to an ex-World Supersport race winning motor. For the class's credibility, the bike will have to get a chunk quicker or they will be in danger of being outpaced by the 125s on a couple of the quicker circuits.

I expect one or two slightly anxious phone calls might be taking place this evening.

ENDS

[WET4URacing]

oh no. thort this was gunna be a pisser of a class

[1down5up]

i still have my fingers crossed that it will be wet early days yet ..... they havent got the spec motors in them yet

[Captain]

Not to mention the shitfight that's brewing between WSBk and motoGP. They will both be racing 1000cc and 600cc, and WSBK are not happy, not one bit.

[mrkotter]

hang on it was wet for the 3 days at the catalan circuit for the testing.
Between that, new bikes, and different engine specs no wonder they were slow.
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/02/19/barcelona_moto2_test_day_3_sees_more_tim.html

storm in a tea cup

[zenodamper]

Have a look at the regulations, there isn't much modding to the motor...

http://fedemoto.net/ImgFCK/file/2010/CEV/Reglamentos/2010Moto2tecnicoENG.pdf

[_chado77]

so what do world SS lap it at?

[mrkotter]

so what do world SS lap it at?

SS and SBK don't race at catalunya. Only Spanish track gp and sbk race at is valencia

[mrkotter]

Have a look at the regulations, there isn't much modding to the motor...

http://fedemoto.net/ImgFCK/file/2010/CEV/Reglamentos/2010Moto2tecnicoENG.pdf

If you're talking to me Zeno I mean for this test some bikes are using bog standard cbr 600 engines while others are using world supersport spec engines. So the times reported don't reflect the engines the teams will get shortly and will race with

[zenodamper]

Yes, well no I wasn't directing anything at the you you, just the general you; but this is for you, as such LOL - so, from reading that .pdf they will be on slow motors it appears... there's hope for mine yet! ha ha

[_chado77]

SS and SBK don't race at catalunya. Only Spanish track gp and sbk race at is valencia

well there goes that comparo then :doh:

[Naked Twin]

Isn't it about the racing not how fast it is? I mean if they are a second or even 2 seconds slower they are still going to be pushing the limit of the bike.

I will wait until they start racing before worrying. As I said in another thread, testing is just chest beating.


Nick

[Lopeman]

who gives a flyin F**K if they are a second or 2 slower?????

its close hard racing we are after, if you are just interested in lap times then go watch the TT or something.

Surely everyone watches rossie battle lorenzo and the rest of the crew hoping for a good hard scrap, not to see who has the fastest lap time . . .

[Bigdog]

If they are slower than 125's then yes there will be a problem or 2. It will make the change to 600's a joke.

[Wattie]

If they are slower than 125's then yes there will be a problem or 2. It will make the change to 600's a joke.

yeah but for the 1st year they will be racing against 250 2 smokes still.. like when gp went to 4T.

so might be pretty shit.

[Captain]

But surely they will be faster than Supersport? And IMO they're great to watch.

[Wattie]

oh for sure they will be good to watch, but if the 250's get out in front, the funs over.

[Kat00]

Somebody will get a good package, rider, chassis, setup, engine and they will walk away with the championship. It will become a one horse race.

[1down5up]

If they are slower than 125's then yes there will be a problem or 2. It will make the change to 600's a joke.
your right big dog +1 the smallest class faster than the feeder class to moto gp !!!!!! its a big joke .........but the 125`s are going by the same way as the 250`s in 2012 .....2 strokes are dead to dorna they dont want them

[Bigdog]

Here are the latest unofficial times from the Catalunya test. Looks like the Moto2 bikes are a fair bit quicker than the 125's around Catalunya. Westy is doing well.

Moto2
1 - Julian Simon - Mapfre Aspar Team - 1’49.3
2 - Shoya Tomizawa - Technomag-CIP - 1’49.3
3 - Yuki Takahashi - Tech 3 Racing - 1’49.3
4 - Jules Cluzel - Forward Racing - 1’49.4
5 - Anthony West - MZ - 1’49.4
6 - Yonni Hernández - Blusens STX - 1’49.6
7 - Kenny Noyes - Jack&Jones by A. Banderas- 1’49.9
8 - Mike di Meglio - Mapfre Aspar Team - 1’50.0
9 - Roberto Rolfo - Italtrans STR - 1’50.0
10 - Claudio Corti - Forward Racing - 1’50.1
11 - Stefan Bradl - Viessmann Kiefer Racing - 1’50.3
12 - Alex Baldolini - Caretta Technology - 1’50.3
13 - Raffaele De Rosa - Tech 3 Racing - 1’50.5
14 - Sergio Gadea - Pons Racing - 1’50.5
15 - Fonsi Nieto - G22 HolidayGym - 1’50.7
16 - Axel Pons - Pons Racing - 1’50.7
17 - Dominique Aegerter - Technomag-CIP - 1’50.7
18 - Thomas Luthi - Interwetten Moriwaki Racing- 1’50.8
19 - Scott Redding - Marc Vds Racing Team - 1’51.1
20 - Mashel Al Naimi - Blusens STX - 1’51.2
21 - Robertino Pietri - Italtrans STR - 1’51.7
22 - Joan Olivé - Jack&Jones by A. Banderas- 1’51.9
23 - Vladimir Leonov - Vector Kiefer Racing - 1’52.3
24 - Karel Abraham - Cardion AB Motoracing - 1’52.8
25 - Vincent Lonbois - Marc Vds Racing Team - 1’52.8
26 - Yannick Guerra - G22 HolidayGym - 1’53.2

125cc
1 - Pol Espargaró - Bainet Derbi - 1’52.9
2 - Nicolás Terol - Bancaja Aspar Team - 1’53.2
3 - Efrén Vázquez - Bainet Derbi - 1’53.5
4 - Bradley Smith - Bancaja Aspar Team - 1’53.5
5 - Esteve Rabat - Blusens STX - 1’53.9
6 - Marc Márquez - Red Bull Ajo Motorsport - 1’54.0
7 - Alberto Moncayo - Andalucia Cajasol - 1’54.8

[1down5up]

didnt even know westy was riding in the 125s this year ............goooooooooooooooooooo westy

[Bigdog]

He isn't in 125's. He may be riding in Moto2 though

[mrkotter]

honda engines will produce 125bhp http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/02/24/honda_moto2_engines_to_produce_125_bhp.html

A lot less than what people were expecting.

[Captain]

From MCN:


Honda’s official Moto2 engine will produce a miserly 125bhp.
That is nearly 30bhp lower than initial targets and makes the spec CBR600RR motor around 20 to 25bhp less powerful than current World Supersport bikes.
HRC, who had admitted early reliability issue during bench testing, has sacrificed performance for reliability with riders getting a motor allocated to them for three races in the inaugural 250cc two-stroke replacement series.
International Race Teams Association boss Mike Trimby, speaking in this week’s MCN, said: “It will be highly competitive and it doesn't matter if it is two seconds slower than 250 or World Supersport.
It’s a compromise between power and reliability. In the first year it is a hell of risk to have a very powerful engine that may not be reliable.
"We want the engines to do about 1500ks between rebuilds to make it economically viable. Some of the World Supersport guys are doing 500ks between rebuilds.
"We don’t care if we’re not quicker than World Supersport. If World Supersport, which is supposedly a production engine is quicker than us, it just exposes the whole fallacy of World Superbike and World Supersport being a production class.” Ouch
The engines will be delivered to teams for the first official test in Valencia on March 1, though MCN understands not all teams will have the new spec motor available.

[Mr.Ed]

Hmmm... that really makes me glad I didn't buy a supersport spec bike! :)

[Captain]

Translated interview with Luca Boscoscuro, owner of moto2 Speedup Team:

Q: So Luca Boscoscuro, tell us about the new category Moto2:
A: Well, it’s a new series for everyone, thought up in a very short period of time …

Q: Too short maybe?
A: From my point of view, yes. I see that everyone is in the same situation as ours and having difficulties … what we’ll needing for the season … and since these are prototypes we’ve had very little time to work on them.

Q: Tell us what happened here in Valencia? They’ve finally given you the engines, tells us about how it worked and how they gave you the engines.
A: Geo Technology who prepares the engines for Moto2 … there was a draw for the engines, the rider pulled a numbered token from a bag.

Q: Can we see this number?
A: It’s here on the engine. In this case it’s Gabor Talmacsi’s bike #24 that we’re using for the first official tests here and in the Jerez test at the end of March. They’ve ordered us to run only a max of 750km in this three day test and another 750km at Jerez and then we leave for Qatar, where they’ll deliver the new engines that will last for the first three races.

Q: About the engines, no one says what the maximum horsepower will be?
A: In the beginning they said that the maximum they would be producing was 150bhp and that’s what really tempted all the teams to join Moto2, because it would have been more competitive than the 250cc class, to tell the truth we still have to know what the real horsepower output is.

Q: Clearly it has to be below 150bhp …
A: We still have to try them, we’ll have to see … but if this Honda engine puts out 150bhp it would be almost impossible for it to last 1500km … which it has to do.

Q: Pros and cons of this class, according to you?
A: Con? I don’t know … what we knew before was that the 250cc class bikes formed riders, they could mature learning the development of the chassis, engine, set-up, in this case, with these engines, the gearbox can’t be modified …

Q: And this is a limit …
A: … This is a big limit … in building the riders of the future. It isn’t strange that all the strongest riders in the world come from the 250cc class and before that from 125cc … and the riders that come from Superbike … boh … we’ll see what Spies does in MotoGP, his predecessors did very little …

Q: You’ve haven’t said anything about the positive aspects so far …
A: No because it’s too early to pass judgement since we haven’t started yet. I think that the races will be very good to watch and we’ll se some great battles because everyone has the same engine …

Q: Engine and ECU unit …
A: More or less, the differences could be who is be better in making a more aerodynamic bike or making a better exhaust system as the exhausts are free, but the differences will be minimal …

Q: A positive thing is that I’ve seen a lot of different chassis, there’s a lot of interest…
A: Since it’s a new class and Dorna believes in it a lot and is pushing it, it’s normal that a lot of people are interested.

Q: Let’s talk about costs. Does it really cost a lot less that the 250cc?
A: Absolutely not. Originally it was supposed to be that way, but in the end it isn’t. At the moment we’re still seeing and we’re still budgeting, but in the end economically it won’t be cheaper than a 250, even considering an official bike, the differences are … I’d say a 10/15% less, that’s max.

Q: So we can say that with one rider you can spend about 200,00o euros less in a season?
A: Around 200,000 a season … With Moto2 we’re forced to use one bike, but in 250cc we had two, but if we compare that with a single 250cc the costs weren’t that much higher.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76hSEjeJRY0&feature=player_embedded#at=35

Source: twowheelblog

[1down5up]

correct me if i am wrong but i thought that a good 600 inline 4 made about 100 to 110 hp anyway
what dose a r6 zx6 gsxr 600 make ?????
they should let the teams play with engines and be open to all makes
better than a honda monoply ... it will advance 4 stroke desighn .......a good thing for all of us

[Captain]

Cautious thumbs-up :ayyy:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/moto2.jpg

[Stu23]

Superstock !! 600's make around 118 to 125.............depending on how superstock !! they are

[1down5up]

Superstock !! 600's make around 118 to 125.............depending on how superstock !! they are
ok so a good super stock motor makes 125 hp at best ... its a joke that the honda motogp 2 motor only makes 125 hp and only getting 3 race weekends or 1500km between rebuilds
the so called rebuild must only be a topend refresh and a oil change. i only wonder how much the teams have to pay for this service bet its not cheep and it will put a lot of top spanners /tuners on the unemployment line

[Dunno]

Moto2 Testing results from Jerez.

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/tests/2010_Test_Jerez2_Moto2_day3_combined.pdf

Some interesting stuff there. Westy 9th fastest & the young Brit Scott Redding 4th. A few of the regular names from last years 125 & 250s down the list such as Olive, Iannone, Passini Corsi & Pesek.

[1down5up]

good to see westy going well on the 3rd gen chassi from mz .....this motogp 2 class (honda cup as i call it ) should be a cracker this year but so where the 250 strokers bring on the new seasion ..... i for 1 cant wait :ayyy:

[1down5up]

good to see westy going well on the 3rd gen chassi from mz .....this motogp 2 class (honda cup as i call it ) should be a cracker this year but so where the 250 strokers bring on the new seasion ..... i for 1 cant wait :ayyy: