190 vs 180 rear tyre

[SIX36]

After EC on Sat i much prefer the 190 over a 180 and will continue till i find a reason not to run one.
Tip in was no slower at all and corners felt much more planted, not sure if it were just the 209's with the extra stiff side walls keeping the tyre in good shape.

Foghorn how did u go on yours with a 190 compared to a 180?

[Captain]

Should I switch over too then?

[SIX36]

I would say yes but i guess its alot of personal preference, grab a set of second hand tyres in a 190 give it a try??

[Pict]

Interesting... might give this a look in next time in the market for tyres.

[Naked Twin]

I did it with a road tyre a few years back and hated the feel when cranked over, so much so I nearly high side coming off turn 2. Back stepped out and I nearly went over the top.

I was led to believe (this is the internet so everything must be true right?) that if you are putting a 190 tyre on a rim designed for a 180 tyre that it actually reduces the contact patch on the side wall but does aid in increasing the tip in. This I was told is because the tyre is now taller due the fact that it is being fitted to a narrower rim.

Wonder if a road tyre would be that different to a slick in regards to the profile of the tyre when fitting.

Anyone want to correct me, please. I have stayed away from 190 tyres for the very reasons above, so it is interesting to see the opposite.

Nick

Nick

[SIX36]

I see the opposite, the tyre is taller but gives a large contact patch on the side because the stiff side wall push the tyre up and doesn't let it sag over the sides, but if the tyre muffin's over the rim like some road tyres might i do agree with the above. I really think it depends on what tyres u use.
Like Wetty said in another post SS bikes run a 200 rear?

[Captain]

Yea, this was discussed in another post, and from memory Zenodamper said that it reduces the contact patch ... but explained that it's different in racing, as they run substentially lower pressures which gives you a larger contact patch.

I won't argue, Zeno knows best. I am confused though, if you look at the way the 190 is pinched on the rim, you get more of the 'mushroom' effect which certainly seems to present more tyre surface to the road. Also by the fact that it doesn't wear all the way to the edge (unlike the 180) then it would appear that ALL the tyre is touching ... with the 180, what happens when you run out of tyre?

I don't get it.

[Wattie]

each and every tyre is measured different. so its hard compare each other.

i have bridgestone slicks on at the moment, the size is 190/640/17 (i think, bike is at mates house) wow! now how big is my side wall? its an overall height.

old hat rules about 180's tipping in quicker ands stuff is a thing of the past.

[zenodamper]

Fairly sure I said road tyre..... no mis-quote wars though eh! (tired)

[Wattie]

yeah road and race tyres, different kettles.

[Naked Twin]

Well that pretty much answers my question.

Nick

[Foghorn]

After EC on Sat i much prefer the 190 over a 180 and will continue till i find a reason not to run one.
Tip in was no slower at all and corners felt much more planted, not sure if it were just the 209's with the extra stiff side walls keeping the tyre in good shape.

Foghorn how did u go on yours with a 190 compared to a 180?

Mate totally agree, just felt more composed into and out of corner's, not even one moment of doubt in and out of T2 & T9 and no feathering of the rear out of the corners. Certain the change to GP Racers helped, but the rear just felt more planted. Just sorted out another set of Racers with a 190 rear.
Everyone tells me that I struggle around OP because it's tighter, time will tell as I'm out there on the 19th December.

Good thread:ayyy:

[Nuff]

Mr848, you are comparing 2 different tyres and they are both different sizes. You have to compare the 209s in 190 and 180 before coming to any conclusions about weather one or the other is better.

[Johnny]

LMFAO, so, getting around on 180 tyres, then due for new tyres ( ie, shagged tyre), getting on a 190, feels better ? no shit shirlock ! shinko's would feel better..


Please......... :lmao:

[SIX36]

Gees all quick to have a say...
I have had 209's in 180 in the gp racers for last 3 track days and yes comparing the same tyre but in a 190 was a improvement, all quick to assume aye...
Johnny the 180's were far from "shagged" better condition than most street tyres so no shit Sherlock...

[Johnny]

So why is it guys who should be on 190's(6"rims) have been known to go down 180's then ???

what you blokes are doing is the total opposite, yes, race bikes may have 200s on them, but when you can ride as fast as them, then it may make a difference, right now, its all pschycological combined with the new tyre feel..

[SIX36]

You tell me, like I said first post personal preference maybe... Different tracks and different tires why do ss run a 200??

[SIX36]

Beg to differ Johnny I've ridden on both back to back same track same bike so u can asume all u like what u think is best..

[Johnny]

Thats fine, a difference of opinion alone it is then.

But, why would they bother to make two different sized rims, 5.5" for 180's and 6 " inch rims for 190's if it didnt affect contact patch and tyre ???,,,
food for thought alone, disagree all you like :D

[seals]

imo different bikes, different tracks, different tyres, different setups, different people = different outcomes. Meaning everyone has an opinion and it feels different to different people.

I say just try it (however be careful - as the bike may behave differently and strange, or may transform it) and make ya own minds if ya like it or hate it

What works for 1 does not mean it will work for others.

and the 200 on SS in US - is because its America and BIGGER is always BETTER :lmao: :lmao:

[SIX36]

Lol all good, I guess some 190's work on a smaller rim not all, to me it felt better to someone else it might not.
Out of curiosity what does a 750 run?

[Mr.Ed]

180s... but the early models were 190s if I'm not mistaken.

[Johnny]

180s... but the early models were 190s if I'm not mistaken.

Yup.. :)

[lilninja]

I ran a 190 up the snowies for the first time usually running a 180 and i must admit if felt more planted when tipped in but It spun up a few times on excellaration out of a corner, which my bike never does, (except once wich caused some remodelling). this makes me think the smaller contact patch at full lean is correct.

[SIX36]

If it were a road tyre I agree, if I were any good in ps I'd draw up my thoughts..

[Johnny]

If it were a road tyre I agree, if I were any good in ps I'd draw up my thoughts..

Luckily for you, this topic has been done to death many times elsewhere..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/gixar/patch-1.jpg


Distort profile by stretching bigger tyre than what rim was designed for and............... fill in the blanks..



..

[SIX36]

Cool cheers but I believe the stiff sidewall on race tyres doesn't allow the mushroom effect..

[Johnny]

Yeah, its definetly a debate that could go on and on..

Aslong as your happy then thats all that matters I guess .
Have used 180s on 6 inch rims in the past ( older 750 :)) for better tip in the past , but upping size is another thing altogether.

[SIX36]

Sweet as I run a 170 on a 5.5 rim on my motard just to get it to turn full stop especially on the kart tracks..

[Captain]

race bikes may have 200s on them, but when you can ride as fast as them, then it may make a difference, right now, its all pschycological combined with the new tyre feel..
Sorry Johnny, that might sound good, but I fail to see the logic. If there's more grip for the racers at their higher speeds, why should there be less grip for me? You might be right, mind you, but it needs explaining.

If I'm right (and 848 might comment) I was the first to use the 'well planted' comment when describing the 190's. Not that it matters ... the point being that others have now said the same, so it's not all in our heads. And I have to tell you, it wasn't the feel of a new tyre - in fact the difference was more noticeable when I went from a 'shagged' 190 to a brand new 180. I like the 190 better.

[Johnny]

Sorry Johnny, that might sound good, but I fail to see the logic. If there's more grip for the racers at their higher speeds, why should there be less grip for me? You might be right, mind you, but it needs explaining.

If I'm right (and 848 might comment) I was the first to use the 'well planted' comment when describing the 190's. I'm not bragging, not one bit ... the point being that others have now said the same, so it's not all in our heads. And I have to tell you, it wasn't the feel of a new tyre - in fact the difference was more noticeable when I went from a 'shagged' 190 to a brand new 180. I like the 190 better.
Zeno explained it to you in other thread, they get better drive with the bigger tyre..

[Stu23]

One thing guys.......all 180's aint 180 as not all 190's are actually 190 size......diferent tyre manufactures will state the actual size o f the tyre if u can find it, sometimes theres not that much diference, you might be suprised :)

I have run 180's and 190's, the 190 will raise the rear some as its taller, but is heavier so will slow down turn in......well u guys know th rest :)

Stu

Stu

[SIX36]

I didn't notice mine was a 190 till I read the sidewall I'll measure the 190 on my zx6r and the 180 on the 848 both same rim size but Pireli's on the Duc.
My theory is because it's taller and the smaller rim emphasises this u get the larger contact patch on the side, like how Pireli's are more pointed than say a Mich 2ct?

[Stu23]

You cant really measure when on the bike as rim size will dictate overall width....measure off the bike or look up the mnfr's actual tyre width

[Wattie]

too much theory, not enough riding. just ride the fuckin thing, FAST!

[SIX36]

too much theory, not enough riding. just ride the fuckin thing, FAST!


Exactly if one gives more confidence than the other and allows u to ride faster why not...

[zenodamper]

All bikes have a different linkage motion ratio to them - one bike changing from a 180 to a 190 will be affected in ways another brand of machine with a differing linkage will not - certainly not heard mention of this in this thread...

The change could for the most part be positive, could also be negative - the change could appear to be positive until one goes to a certain pace and starts to realise the underlying negative symptoms that were always there... what is to say that at a certain pace the gain in stiffness in the tyre could make things better and easier to be faster; but geometrically it is still worse; but this is not evident until the tipping point is reached with speed demands - the same benefits might also be realised with better springs and damping control without sacrificing the geometry... (better linkage too, or especially)

Naturally a tyre change is cheaper and easier to comprehend. But without seeing or analysing each and every parameter that may be affecting things, it is not good science to make a judgment! Would you not agree?

[Captain]

It's something I am suspecting. This is after all, a quest for knowledge and understanding ... how often do we find that things look better, but it's only when you delve deeper that you realise thigs are not as they appear? This seem to apply to so many things in life.

[Naked Twin]

But as mentioned previously, if in your head you think it is better, then to you it is better. I have a saying at work "perception is reality", if your perception is of improvement than that will not change unless you can prove to yourself otherwise.

Riding a bike is a lot about mental state, if you have confidence in what is under you then you can do anything. We say stock suspension is not great but put a good rider on a bad bike and I am sure he will out perform a bad rider on the best bike.

Casey Stoner is perfect example, many observers believe the Ducati is a pig to ride but Casey seems to do it with ease. Maybe in his head it is on rails but for Melandri it was a dog. Who is right and who is wrong?

Nick

[Captain]

I don't know about who's wrong ... but I am usually right :D


Believing something is better might be well enough for a placebo, but I want to make sure it is better! What's the use of all this confidence in a 190, if I'm to find that at 46 degree lean it suddenly lets go?

[Naked Twin]

Captain, if Ducati can't answer why Stoner is faster then anyone else on their bike how are we mere mortals meant to answer your question?

Nick

[Wattie]

dude, macadams will do a 46 degree lean angle. most probably while cold.

add erratic inputs, then maybe not.

[zenodamper]

No doubt they will - it was tongue in cheek I presume - refer to the thread re: photo calculated lean angles at E.C.'s T2 for discussion on 45°...

Nick: that is a fallacious argument and you know it - what Ducati says to the press is as relevant as a news report on telly - we don't actually know anymore than they tell us - what they say/tell/recount/release may not be entirely truthful... which is why not watching the news leaves you in a relative position to actually watching it. Keyword here could be "spin"..?

I hope you appreciate the academic POV here and not anything petty and emotive which has not been within my implication - personally I am very "que sera sera" to it all! :lmao:

[Naked Twin]

James it is not what Ducati are saying it is what is actually happening. Who apart from Casey can ride the thing week in week out?

You would know better then most that some like a "loose or lack of feel" front end where others need to know if the front ran over a pin. Which is better is highly opinionated and subject to what works for you doesn't for me discussions.

Nick

[zenodamper]

Too true - I have opinion on what is going on with it; but like I alluded, visualising motion; knowing the motion and what people say about it are all un-grounded (when lacking data), by maybe only a small amount perhaps; but it is those little details which could well spell the difference - whatever we speculate here he certainly has a talent to do what he does on it; but without the whole "physics" story it all looks a little like we are on the outside looking in without enough of the puzzle... (which we are)

I think he needs to go back to riding a Honda though and see if it transfers... :stirthepot: (cat vs. pigeons)

[Captain]

I think he needs to go back to riding a Honda though and see if it transfers... :stirthepot: (cat vs. pigeons)
That's what we all want; Stoner on another bike (any bike) and Rossi on the Ducati.

[SIX36]

That's what we all want; Stoner on another bike (any bike) and Rossi on the Ducati.

I'd pay to see that...if Stoner can control the animal of the Duc the Honda should be a breeze as they ride themselves don't they.

[Foghorn]

its all pschycological combined with the new tyre feel..

Johnny I hope you are not suggesting that I am fantasizing about my new tyre feel.....................new tyre feel :drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

[Johnny]

Johnny I hope you are not suggesting that I am fantasizing about my new tyre feel.....................new tyre feel :drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

LOL, just back from a ride and enjoying that new tyre feel and smile myself, so :drool: :drool: :drool: right back at ya :D

[Jase]

well while we are on the topic of tyre sizes i just got hold on some near new ntec's only thing is the rear is a 200/55 any one got any advice on these or maybe setup..

[Wattie]

you will LOVE them!

[Wattie]

and the rule of changing one thing at a time applies to tyres too, dont change anything untill you ride on them.

[Jase]

hmm yes i've heard they are something special cant wait .. might even put them on for THE FARM next week... i may have to put the forks back to stock position to compensate for the weight bias change ( m ore weight over the front ) not sure yet as i've only just dropped them through the tubes..

[Wattie]

hmm yes i've heard they are something special cant wait .. might even put them on for THE FARM next week... i may have to put the forks back to stock position to compensate for the weight bias change ( m ore weight over the front ) not sure yet as i've only just dropped them through the tubes..

dont change a thing. see how it goes 1st. :ayyy:

[chriskerr]

a few thoughts on my experience with a tyre upsize, same type of tyre.

went from a 190 rear to 200 rear on my k4 gixxer thou, 209Gp's in both sizes, the only difference noticed was a slightly faster tip in (could be in my head tho) and noticibly larger chicken strips!! i was at the edge of the 190's and i think i have a good 2cm with the 200's onboard.

The 209's still take mins or so to get warm enough too feel comfortable with, but that was also the case with the 190's. I run between 30 and 32psi in the rear for road riding.

[Foghorn]

.. might even put them on for THE FARM next week...

WTF you did not mention to me you were doing the 22 turn's of Valhalla.
Shit mate I'm green :ninja: with envy

[Pirate]

a few thoughts on my experience with a tyre upsize, same type of tyre.

went from a 190 rear to 200 rear on my k4 gixxer thou, 209Gp's in both sizes, the only difference noticed was a slightly faster tip in (could be in my head tho) and noticibly larger chicken strips!! i was at the edge of the 190's and i think i have a good 2cm with the 200's onboard.

The 209's still take mins or so to get warm enough too feel comfortable with, but that was also the case with the 190's. I run between 30 and 32psi in the rear for road riding.

Interesting, I believe the the 209gp only comes in a 180 or 190 and the only similar tyre in a 200 is the d211. They are different tyres though with the 211 being an Ntec and run at 22 / 23 psi hot and the 209 being a more std tyre...

(unless you talking about Dunlop Qalifiers of course, but who'd go to the track with those.. :-) )

Until next year when the d211 slicks will be here....

Or not.!

[Jase]

these tyres are the 211's i got these of a racer and the chicken strip is about 10-15 mm from the edge of the rear tyre .. only got max 8 laps on em .. yeah mick just got it all sorted The Farm on tuesday should be great fun and close to home ya can do half days too ...

[Jase]

16 psi cold 20 psi hot on the rear 34psi in the front hot :ninja: ride on foggy :ayyy:

[Captain]

Just happened to come across a good article from 'Sportrider' on this topic:


Does Size Matter
Squeezing a wide tire onto a narrow rim can be a big mistake. Here's why.
By Andrew Trevitt

Those low-profile 190-series tires sure look gnarly on the back of a sportbike, and we've seen them pinched onto all sizes of rims. But in reality, a 190/50-17 fits properly only on a 6.0-inch rim, and cramming it onto anything smaller severely changes its profile.

As an experiment, we mounted a 190-series Metzeler Rennsport onto our F4i's 5.5-inch rear wheel and took some measurements. Compared to the correctly sized tire on the same rim, the 190's profile closely matches the 180's near the edges of the tread, but is much lower in the center area-equivalent to about a 6mm change in ride height. Effectively, the wider tire will give more rake and trail when the bike is vertical, while keeping close to the original geometry when the bike is leaned over. Accounting for one (by changing ride height) will unduly affect the other.

Following our test with the Metzeler Sportecs, we slipped a 190/50 rear Sportec onto the F4i and rode a portion of the test loop for a practical comparison. With no changes to suspension or geometry, the F4i felt substantially different with the wider tire. With the bike straight up and down, steering was slightly sluggish in comparison, but just off vertical, the F4i was quite tippy and darted into corners. The light, neutral steering of the Sportecs was completely changed and the bike lost its balanced feel. The sensation was very much like riding on a tire squared off from too many freeway miles. At higher lean angles, performance was less affected, although making transitions from side to side was unpredictable. And, contrary to the popular myth that the wider tire puts down a bigger footprint and gives more traction, we felt no improvement in that department from the properly sized tire.

We've experienced similar changes with a 180-series tire on a 5.0-inch rim meant for a 170-series bun. Tire engineers work hard to design and match front and rear profiles for characteristics that we sometimes take for granted. Upsetting that balance is surprisingly easy and you should think twice before sacrificing your tire's performance for appearance's sake.


This scaled line drawing below shows how the 190-section tire retains its low profile in the center of the tread, but pinches in to match the 180's profile at the edges. Steering characteristics are substantially changed.
http://image.sportrider.com/f/8888109+w750+st0/tire-size-profile-zoom.jpg


http://image.sportrider.com/f/8888118+w750+st0/tire-size-180-zoom.jpg

Cramming a 190-section rear tire onto a 5.5-inch rim results in a multi-radius profile as shown here. Above, a 180/55-17 rear tire properly mounted on a 5.5-inch rim. Below, a 190-50/17 tire on the same rim.

http://image.sportrider.com/f/8888121+w750+st0/tire-size-190-zoom.jpg

[SIX36]

I have gone back to a 180 and do prefer it over the 190 but I did enjoy the planted mid corner feeling from the 190 but not sure why as looking at the two pics the 180 should have more mid corner grip...??

[*Oggy*]

Well to be frank.... don't listen to us plebs.... At $600 a shout each time you experiment.... go ask the suspension guy you use... with the bike you use and the type of riding you do and then add what you want to get from those combinations... and let him advise you on "the" combinations he would sugggest for what he has ridden on... changed and customers bikes.... We (the consumer) have all our own thoughts, but how many (really) have tried all the manufacturers profiles/compounds on each bike in all conditions ?? (no-one Im thinking)....

[Mozzie]

Great thread.

[ottospunkmeister]

Just wondering how it would go if instead of shoehorning a wider 190 or even 200 onto a standard 5.5 inch rim the rim was replaced with a 6 incher so the wider tyre fitted better. Would it feel better having a wider rim/tyre combo than a narrower rim/tyre combo? I'm guessing there's a reason the engineers put 5.5 rim and 180 tyre as standard for my bike rather than a 6 rim and 190 or 200 tyre?

[Wattie]

each tyre is manufactured different anyway. the tyre pictured is a metzler rennsport. old tech.

[Foghorn]

I have gone back to a 180 and do prefer it over the 190 but I did enjoy the planted mid corner feeling from the 190 but not sure why as looking at the two pics the 180 should have more mid corner grip...??

Mate I am echoing your thoughts (that's a little scary) I went to a new set of GP-A's just like you.....with a 180 rear and loved the quicker turn in at Oran, I still have a couple of 190 rears in the shed at home which I will use

[*Oggy*]

I had to laugh as I only have a 110 on the rear of the 350 LC.... It looks so damn skinny and especially when you read the tech info on the Avon tyre.... "Can be either a front or rear tyre depending on fitment? !!!!

I had a chat with Zeno as you can get a 120 or even a 130 to fit the rim....but alas the advise was that the 110 was the way to go........

Just put Racetecs on the Blade and its amazing what different profile a 190/50 Michelin Pilot one and a 190/55 Racetech is !!!!! and thats without changing the width......

[zenodamper]

...thought you weren't gonna ride it until the 4th! LOL

[Captain]

Have a look at the diameter:

http://image.sportrider.com/f/8888109+w750+st0/tire-size-profile-zoom.jpg

That's bullshit, because on my bike when they fitted the 190's I could barely squeeze the tyre warmer between the tyre and the hugger. The 190 was a good 8mm higher.
I posted an article that I found, but I don't believe one word of it. My bike went very well on the 190's ... and ft it wasn't for all the negative comments I'd still have it on the bike

EDIT: Or are they comparing an 180/55 with a 190/50? I guess that might do it ...

[Kimbo]

Is that on a 5.5inch rim or a 6 inch rim?

[1notop]

another article has the 190/55 profile shown in it.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/146_0302_rear_motorcycle_tire/photo_01.html
artists impressions???

from
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/146_0302_rear_motorcycle_tire/index.html

[Captain]

yes, but that's an article discussing the fitting of a 190/55 instead of a 190/50 on a 6-inch rim (1000cc bike). Essentailly they're saying that doing so, will give a shape that will better match that of a 180/55 tyre of a 5.5-inch rim.

[stormr]

A mate of mine fitted a supercorsa 190/55 to his new '06 Gixxer 750 instead of the stock 180/55. The sides of tyre were pulled in so much that the edges were almost perpendicular to the road and the profile was much more rounded and as a result he was running on the grooved portion, reducing contact patch. He had been running the SC 190/55 on his previous bike, a K3 1000, but immediately felt uncomfortable with the level of grip. He hadn't been track riding very long so he asked me for a second opinion. We swapped bikes for a session (I was running the same tyre on my K5 1000) and his bike was a pig - felt like he had 40+ psi in the tyre even though it had only 30. It did tip in easily but gave zero confidence with any sort of lean angle applied. He hated the feel of the bike with that tyre so much he sold the bike!!! A huge thumbs down.
We spotted the bike (still fitted with the 190 and it's huge chicken strips) and it's newbie owner at EC a few months later. He disliked the feel of the bike / tyre as well and was also in the process of selling.
I told them both that it was the tyre and not the bike but neither would listen.........

[*Oggy*]

A mate of mine fitted a supercorsa 190/55 to his new '06 Gixxer 750 instead of the stock 180/55. The sides of tyre were pulled in so much that the edges were almost perpendicular to the road and the profile was much more rounded and as a result he was running on the grooved portion, reducing contact patch. He had been running the SC 190/55 on his previous bike, a K3 1000, but immediately felt uncomfortable with the level of grip. He hadn't been track riding very long so he asked me for a second opinion. We swapped bikes for a session (I was running the same tyre on my K5 1000) and his bike was a pig - felt like he had 40+ psi in the tyre even though it had only 30. It did tip in easily but gave zero confidence with any sort of lean angle applied. He hated the feel of the bike with that tyre so much he sold the bike!!! A huge thumbs down.
We spotted the bike (still fitted with the 190 and it's huge chicken strips) and it's newbie owner at EC a few months later. He disliked the feel of the bike / tyre as well and was also in the process of selling.
I told them both that it was the tyre and not the bike but neither would listen.........

Amazing........... Scary the Chinese whisper thing... "Gixxer 750's handle like crap"..................... the power of mis-information

[Captain]

I told them both that it was the tyre and not the bike but neither would listen.........
I hear ya mate. I have a neighbour who used to ride a 04 (?) CBR 1000RR, and he'd have his chain as tight as could be, so that the poor shock wasn't able to do anything. I went riding with him a few times, and his bike handled like a pig and he wanted to buy another. I told him that the bike was fine, certainly much better than he was, all he had to do was loosen the chain a touch. Would he listen? He's now bought a new Duacti, and keep bragging to me how much better it handles, and that I should buy one too.
:spank:

[1notop]

yes, but that's an article discussing the fitting of a 190/55 instead of a 190/50 on a 6-inch rim (1000cc bike). Essentailly they're saying that doing so, will give a shape that will better match that of a 180/55 tyre of a 5.5-inch rim.

The pic was just to confirm which 190 they had drawn in the pic you put up.



*edit*the article link afterwards was to save you having to search for it
as I think you would do in case there's any more relevant info.

[sixer]

imo different bikes, different tracks, different tyres, different setups, different people = different outcomes. Meaning everyone has an opinion and it feels different to different people.

I say just try it (however be careful - as the bike may behave differently and strange, or may transform it) and make ya own minds if ya like it or hate it

What works for 1 does not mean it will work for others...

That's the most sensible/truthful answer in the 8 pages to date!

My bike, it's set up, it's tyres, it's rider, what works for me, won't necessarily work for anyone else.

For me, the 190 was also far taller, not as shown in the pictures above. i too could barely get the warmer around it, in fact when i had the gixxer 600 I had to remove the raer hugger to get the warmer on at all with the 190.

For the moment, with the current settings, the 190 feels better. But with some more suspension work, i will once again try a 180 and see what the differences are to me. I am going to space the rear shock, the taller tyre might not be necessary any longer to get the ride feeling good.

[Jase]

im running a 200 on the rear of my ten i love it tip in feels so much more positive not to mention the side contact patch is larger meaning more grip when leaned over and ya cant have to much of that wont be going back oh and im running the 211's ...

[Jase]

suspension work is required with the 211's , heavier rear spring ..

[Captain]

My bike, it's set up, it's tyres, it's rider, what works for me, won't necessarily work for anyone else.
You know, whilst that 'sounds' right, I don't really believe it. Whilst there is no doubt a little room for play to cater for individual riding styles, nevertheless I am of the opinion that there is one best way to set up your bike to have it go around a particular track. Otherwise, why would Computrack (http://gmd-computrack.com/) bother?

I am speaking 'technically' ... without regards for our general ability (or lack of); at our lap times, there's probably a million different setting, and they'd all get us there :)

[Foghorn]

As previously mentioned I had a GP Racer 190/55 on my K1 750 loved the feel of it through the mid section of the corner, changed back to the new GP-A's in a 180/55, as my riding style developes (I am now braking later and tipping in much later/quicker). I feel it's the better choice plus I love the tyre, the GP-A is confidence inspiring. I was quick (for me) at Oran a couple of Saturdays ago and certainly the 180 helped around what is a tight circut.