400 4-stroke vs 250 2-stroke

[Mr.Ed]

Ok, so I'll be probably going down that road after analyzing my recent (lack of) figures for a track bike.
I did try the search button but it wasn't there... or I didn't know how to search, so forgive me if it's been asked and answered a million times before.
What I'd like to know is what are ppl's opinions on those... running costs, maintenance, better options, etc. I'm also considering picking up an older 600 as I just want something I can throw around and learn on without having to worry too much in case I total it.
To illustrate and entertain I bring you this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylO8zbytLnE&fmt=18

Anyway, suggest away... explanations are always welcome... feel free to call me names... call my friends names... but try and keep my mom out of it if you can.:ayyy:

[Cedric]

Ed, I reckon an older 600 would be the best bet. 250 2T are too much maintenance, 400 4T are too expensive to maintain what with parts and all.. Cheapy 600cc 4T will give you all the performance you need, be cheap to maintain (depending on model) and won't give you too much trouble with maintenance..

My 0.02c

[Cedric]

That is a top video btw.. :ayyy:

[ottospunkmeister]

I was told that if you want to learn to ride fast you need a 125 two-stroke to join and try and keep up with a bunch of teenagers at the track.:lmao:

[wade193]

I've never seen a race where they look back so much, especially Carl

Q. When did points for a win go from 20 to 25?

[LAW]

Why go for a 600 when you can have a 750 (http://nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12483) *cough* ahem.

factory power is 100hp (approx) which puts the old girl on par with modern 600's.

also I've wondered why 250 2T's raced 400's, surely the strokers would have a power AND weight advantage?

[Cedric]

also I've wondered why 250 2T's raced 400's, surely the strokers would have a power AND weight advantage?

I doubt it, what about the tractability and torque of the larger capacity? Sure in theory the 250 2T is supposed to be equivalent to a 500cc 4T but it's not really in the real world is it..

Given the choice of a 2T and a 4T in equivalent hp output, I'd take the 4T anytime..

I reckon you'll struggle to make the laptimes you made on your ZXR on your new one for a long time yet Law.. :ayyy: Even given the power/weight ratios of both bikes...

[LAW]

I doubt it, what about the tractability and torque of the larger capacity? Sure in theory the 250 2T is supposed to be equivalent to a 500cc 4T but it's not really in the real world is it..

Given the choice of a 2T and a 4T in equivalent hp output, I'd take the 4T anytime..

I reckon you'll struggle to make the laptimes you made on your ZXR on your new one for a long time yet Law.. :ayyy: Even given the power/weight ratios of both bikes...

That's half the fun, my philosophy has always been that I need to drop time from skill not bike. and now I have a bike that is unforgiving so for the first time on the track I have to really work for my 1/10s.

[Mr.Ed]

That's half the fun, my philosophy has always been that I need to drop time from skill not bike. and now I have a bike that is unforgiving so for the first time on the track I have to really work for my 1/10s.
And yet you suggest I do the opposite, huh?!:lmao::lmao:

[Cedric]

Ed your perceptions know no bounds. I like the cut of your jib :ayyy:

[Mr.Ed]

Ed your perceptions know no bounds. I like the cut of your jib :ayyy:
Thanks!:ayyy:
:lmao:

[madracing201]

Ok, so I'll be probably going down that road after analyzing my recent (lack of) figures for a track bike.
I did try the search button but it wasn't there... or I didn't know how to search, so forgive me if it's been asked and answered a million times before.
What I'd like to know is what are ppl's opinions on those... running costs, maintenance, better options, etc. I'm also considering picking up an older 600 as I just want something I can throw around and learn on without having to worry too much in case I total it.
To illustrate and entertain I bring you this!



Anyway, suggest away... explanations are always welcome... feel free to call me names... call my friends names... but try and keep my mom out of it if you can.:ayyy:



I got 2 VFR 400's ie 4 stroke V4
The things are great fun.
I must DISAGREE with previous posts suggesting that they are expensive to maintain.This is not true.They are very cheap,hence the reason so many people race them.They are more popular and easier to get parts for than 250 2 strokes. Tyres will last you heaps longer on a 400 than a 600.
400's are brilliant bikes to learn the craft of cornering. Nothing beats the feeling of racing round the outside of riders on bigger more expensive bikes on turn 1 at eastern creek.Yeah so they smoke you down the straight but by turn 2 you've passed them and they won't overtake you again until your on the straight again.
Quickest lap time at eastern creek on a 400 is 1.43.pretty fast for a bike that's more than 10 years old and only has 70hp at the wheel.
If I can lap in the low 1min 50's at the creek and beat 600's,750's 100's then any one can.(I'm 6'3".weigh 95kg's and have a severly underpowered bike 57hp at wheels)
I can highly recommend buying one.

[LAW]

And yet you suggest I do the opposite, huh?!:lmao::lmao:

just saying, if you want an older bike why not get one that'll scratch with the newer ones :ayyy:

[Cedric]

Scratch the dirt between T1 and T2 you mean :lmao:

[Mr.Ed]

I got 2 VFR 400's ie 4 stroke V4
The things are great fun.
I must DISAGREE with previous posts suggesting that they are expensive to maintain.This is not true.They are very cheap,hence the reason so many people race them.They are more popular and easier to get parts for than 250 2 strokes. Tyres will last you heaps longer on a 400 than a 600.
400's are brilliant bikes to learn the craft of cornering. Nothing beats the feeling of racing round the outside of riders on bigger more expensive bikes on turn 1 at eastern creek.Yeah so they smoke you down the straight but by turn 2 you've passed them and they won't overtake you again until your on the straight again.
Quickest lap time at eastern creek on a 400 is 1.43.pretty fast for a bike that's more than 10 years old and only has 70hp at the wheel.
If I can lap in the low 1min 50's at the creek and beat 600's,750's 100's then any one can.(I'm 6'3".weigh 95kg's and have a severly underpowered bike 57hp at wheels)
I can highly recommend buying one.

Cool! That's the kind of thing I wanted to read... someone that actually owns the bike and uses it often at the track!:ayyy:
To be honest I was kinda worried about buying a bike with such a small engine and riding characteristics since OP is being closed but after reading that you can do 1:50s on it I'll have to re-think that!
Thanks mate!:ayyy:

[madracing201]

Cool! That's the kind of thing I wanted to read... someone that actually owns the bike and uses it often at the track!:ayyy:
To be honest I was kinda worried about buying a bike with such a small engine and riding characteristics since OP is being closed but after reading that you can do 1:50s on it I'll have to re-think that!
Thanks mate!:ayyy:


Well the 400's at wakefield are pretty much on par with the 600's and 1000's lap time wise.a couple of seconds.Not much difference.
400 is heaps more fun at eastern creek.im not a massive fan of oran park.
small bikes are great at phillip island aswell.heaps of fast corners.
With a little getting used to 400's are great fun.You can get one cheap.
eden kwok has one for less than $3000.
can get honda VFR400,RVF400,CB400,CBR400
Kawasaki ZXR400
Yamaha FZR400
Suzuki GSXR400


Nothing like thrashing a small bike around the track. :ayyy: They are so much quicker in the corners than the bigger bikes, and some people get jealous with you when you go flying round the outside of them. :cursing:

[Mr.Ed]

:lmao::lmao:
Yeah, I've done a trackday at Oran Park on a Aprilia RS250 and can definitely say they ARE fun!:ayyy:
I wasn't particularly found of having to warm it up (a lot) before each session but once it gets going it all seems pretty small, really...:) And the brakes on that bike were unreal too!
I've never tried a 400 but I'm hoping it won't be much different on the way the bike needs corner speed and constant gearchanges. None of that worries me, in fact I even like it!
I had a 600RR before (my first bike ever) and despite learning a lot from it I was always a bit worried of dropping it... that's where these bikes fit in so well!
If they in fact are cheap and cheap to run, then the choice is that much easier! I did find a few cheap 600s, some much newer than the VFR/RVF/RGV/RS era for pretty much the same coin... but can they teach me as much as the little bikes? :confused1:
I guess in the end it will depend on what I can get for my money. If a 400 comes up for the right price or with the right extras it'll be great... otherwise it could be a 600 too, I guess.

[WET4URacing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylO8zbytLnE&fmt=18

:ayyy:

saw this u toob in the 4 sale on FX yest and sent it to a mate from pommy land in the know. he replied


""I wasn't at that race, but I do remember those days.

Witham's RGV had a hidden fuel tank inside the normal fuel tank. He had avgas in the normal tank so that when they sampled the fuel at the end of the race it passed, but was running 125 octane 'blue gas' in the secret tank. What a star

Regards,""

[Mr.Ed]

saw this u toob in the 4 sale on FX yest and sent it to a mate from pommy land in the know. he replied


""I wasn't at that race, but I do remember those days.

Witham's RGV had a hidden fuel tank inside the normal fuel tank. He had avgas in the normal tank so that when they sampled the fuel at the end of the race it passed, but was running 125 octane 'blue gas' in the secret tank. What a star

Regards,""


Not everyone agrees, but I have to say: "THAT'S RACING!":ayyy:

[WET4URacing]

Not everyone agrees, but I have to say: "THAT'S RACING!":ayyy:


agrees to wat ed? :)

[Mr.Ed]

Well, some ppl see that as "cheating" and that it "stains" the true spirit of sport...:bla::bla:
To me that's competition at its best. Ppl doing whatever they can to win. The tank thing is a stroke of genius if you ask me. Just like Piquet "Coolant recipient" in the 80's... Brilliant!:ayyy:

[Mr Bones]

Cool Vid mate. I've got an old 98 GSXR 600 trackie. It' does the job though it's not the quickest bike. It only owes me about 5K all up. Cheap & easy.

[Mr.Ed]

Cheap & easy.
That's the idea!:ayyy:

[Johnny]

cheating is still cheating

[Mr.Ed]

And winning is still winning... like I said, not everyone would I agree!

[Johnny]

hah.. good argument :)

[WET4URacing]

cheating is still cheating


only if u get cort