Getting faster...

[LAW]

So at the track today I noticed several things that I'm not doing right. I need some educationism from the collective genius. My problems start with my lean angle and posture, I'm getting it over but my toes are scraping before my knee is anywhere near the ground, also the bike feels loose, I assumed this is the edge of the rubber but I would expect to get much more lean angle before they break away :confused1:

My next problem is sliding, I was trying to be smooth (especially after that CSS guy in the garage explained how you should open the throttle smoothly and evenly). but sometimes (mainly exiting 5 at EC) the back end would just let go and I left at least 2 squiggly black lines there :eek: I've heard something about concentrating on your feet but not sure what that means?

Any tips are appreciated, I don't think I'm fast enough yet to really benefit from a CSS or RRPA or even suspension work, I'm more interested in getting the basics of my technique right before I do that. I was running a 2:02 fastest lap and consistantly around 2:04/2:06.

Thanks


LAW

[jasonbw]

CSS is all about basics Law.. youd learn a lot there.

[RUSSELL]

hey mate, check out JPM photos to check out your posture, then compare it to faster riders, not saying they have the correct way but it puts you in the ball park, and get sum better rubber on the rear,
as long as your having fun, thats all that matters

[Stu23]

You need training 1st Law before you even think of going fast
All you will do is pick up bad habits....sounds like you have a few already :) not being unkind...just dont want u hurting yourself...
Sounds like your body position as bad...training will help...do the school and build up slowly

You foot position is all wrong, prob body position too

[Mozzie]

Do CSS

[LAW]

oh alright then :rules: :)

[stetto]

If ur toes are scrapping, u'd b at the edge of ur tyre i reckon. I dont scrap my toes, try get ur upper and lower body off more so u require less lean. Also turning harder and faster will reduce that lean angle.

[zRoYz]

:confused1: I'm always the one going against the grain :lmao:

CSS is fine but not everybody benefits from it & it does cost allot of money, yes it is structured well but again even the drills you do are allot of info to take in during a short time. My advise is very basic slow down & work on things until they become second nature & speed will follow. It's not easy to know what your doing wrong without guidance which is were CSS is good but there are things you can do first to improve. Read twist of the wrist which is what CSS is based on & there is even a DVD version with multimedia content if simply reading a book isn't your thing.

Ride with people who are better than you & use your powers of observation questions don't always have answers you understand, but also ask questions but better asked when riding as internet forums will tend to confuse with many different opinions.

Lastly is your bike, what is suspension/tyres like you can't expect a bike to preform well with tyre profile badly worn or suspension that is better suited to a pogo stick.

Now to simply answer your questions here without knowing condition of your bike etc you normally scrap toes due to not having more or less your toes on the pegs & a high lean angle due to speed. Your posture also has allot to do with this not shifting the weight load on your bike which is you. With a high lean angle your bike will squirm more under power due to smallest contact patch when on edge of tyre which is simply less grip when your trying to apply power.

So my view is if you can't afford CSS you need to start somewhere:
1. Read twist of the wrist
2. Watch allot of bike racing
3. Ride with more exp riders who are willing to spend some time with you
4. Slow down so your brain can have the time to think until you do things automatically

Riding isn't a natural thing to all of us because if it was we would all be stoner, some of us need to work hard to improve & at times the right wrist reacts to quickly for the brain to catch up.

[dazzler]

i think thats exactly what mr law was asking for Sir Roy.....

and to me it made alot of sense, so thank you!

[Jungleboy]

Its can be hard give advice without seeing someone ride in person, but I think I can give some advice from a few things you've said..

1) Are you riding on your toes/balls of your feet? (unless you bike is set up very poorly you shouldnt be running out of clearance at this pace) Riding up on your toes will help greatly with not only clearance but also change of direction and general bike control (also great for catching highsides as your legs cant spring out very quickly when flat footed).

2) The best way to overcome wheelspin or rear wheel traction problems is to simply* enter the corner at and maintain a higher speed through the corner. The faster you come out of the the corner the less you have to accellarate on the exit to reach the same speed through the next section of track, Of course you will always be chasing your tail as the quicker you go the quicker you will try to go..

Thats why people can be doing mid 1:50's and feel like they are about to highside! (and sometimes do) They are scrubing off too much speed under brakes before corner entry and the have to accellerate like crazy to get back up to speed again on exit.

*The hard part is being able to acheive a higher corner speed, which we will discuss in part 2 :) (body position, line choice, turn in point, lean angle)

Right now I have to go to bed as Im trying to break my insomnia habit :(

[saf]

LAW, alot of different techniques work for different riders but some things follow the rules of go fast.

First and foremost if your technique is holding you back with something big, start from scratch. That is, instead of trying to get your butt off the seat, focus more on getting your shoulders off the bike and point them into the corners. This will help not only with foot clearance but it will increase your confidence and speed mid-corner.

These vids were posted a little while ago and explain the good posture very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxODoscChNo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxb5nRufuZ8

[triumph]

i only wish i knew what they were saying in those videos. my computer gone deaf and i cant lip read .

[zRoYz]

i only wish i knew what they were saying . my computer gone deaf and i cant lip read .

Thanks for letting us all know, how you off for socks & undies :dohsmiley:

[triumph]

Thanks for letting us all know, how you off for socks & undies :dohsmiley:
hang on and i go and have a look .

[muzz]

Thanks for letting us all know, how you off for socks & undies :dohsmiley:
:lmao:

[Johnny]

LAw, your riding duck footed, fullstop.

[Johnny]

LAw, your riding duck footed, fullstop.
Cant seem to edit so will quote and add to.


Which is exactly what I was doing on my last and only outing in 6 months :o

[Captain]

Personally I got a lot out of CSS Law, I reckon it's money very well spent. I have read through the book, twice, but personally I can't make that work, as I read too much and then forget it. IMO the structured CSS method, where you are shown a technique and then you go out and practice it is the best way.

You can certainly learn a lot by following faster riders, but if you have no idea what to do, then what? I recall doing just that, and trying things like 'trail braking', or 'rolling on sooner', or 'getting to full throttle faster' etc, to catch him - but that was because I had leant these concepts to begin with.

[wade193]

LAw, your riding duck footed, fullstop.

Thats what i pictured.

[_chado77]

being a fan of the KISS theory..and always using the practical over academic practice especially for my hoobies.. hell have enough of academics for a terrible thing called work

simple ...try moving your feet first.. size 10+(hell i guess 8's will too) plus hoofs always will over hang until ya pull em back..

talk to mono.. that bloke used to wear out boots like they're chewing gum

i had same problem back in day:Kat00: but after adjusting soon got rid of that problem and on to new one:dohsmiley:

i just choose a corner on the track they would drag and focused on my feet(theres not that much yu can do with em anyway) on that corner only then once sorted use it in next corner etc etc

heres one from OP turn 2 with my 11 hoof tucked in..seemed to work and took very little time to adjust:ayyy:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/_chado77/CB-OP-060407_1920.jpg


as someone said already said go out and have fun:ayyy:

[ROB83R]

Your body position is all wrong chado!

Law watch the vids and practise them. And save for CSS while practising.

[Matt01]

Hey law, sounds like a lot of advice!!!
Personally I've been riding with fast guys who do track days. These guys are known on here and are great at giving advice- but you need to watch them and then ask. I've gotten out of bad habits since being back on the road after 9 years off. But you have to work at it...alot.

I have gotten alot of confidence from focusing on 'dropping the inside elbow, which lowers you head into the corner, allowing you upper body to be out with your mirrors and looking around the door on exit of a corner'. (seems to be working for me)
This advice was given to me after a rider saw me travel on the wrong side of the road when I was trying to ride fast.
Now I can ride faster and have smoother lines.

I'm trying to remember that "going slower will make you faster". That was said to me and I didn't understand it until I slowed down found some twisties and stuck to 70k's and concentrated on body language. Then when it became smoother I moved to 80k's, 90k's etc. Now I can do those corners at 130k's. Confidently.
I did this midweekly for around 4 weeks doing the same loop for about 4hrs.
The big boys still ride past me but atleast I keep the honest....lol

I may be wrong with some of my 'advice/rantings' but it works for me.
And I don't get comments now -unless I ask for them!

Thats my two cents worth.

[_chado77]

Your body position is all wrong chado!

Law watch the vids and practise them. And save for CSS while practising.

thats why... read line 4 our young pie eating friend:ayyy:

but notice the toes:mod_smilie_rockwoot

[Thunderace]

Any tips are appreciated, I don't think I'm fast enough yet to really benefit from a CSS or RRPA or even suspension work, I'm more interested in getting the basics of my technique right before I do that. I was running a 2:02 fastest lap and consistantly around 2:04/2:06.

Thanks


LAW

I don't preclaim to be a great rider or fast, but I know the difference it made to my old '90VFR and Thunderace getting suspension work done (springs and valving) made to the handling of the bike and also tyre wear. Other people more knowledgable can comment but having the bike set up for your weight etc could only be a good thing

[ottospunkmeister]

[QUOTE=Matt01;204413]Hey law, sounds like a lot of advice!!!


I'm trying to remember that "going slower will make you faster". That was said to me and I didn't understand it until I slowed down found some twisties and stuck to 70k's and concentrated on body language. Then when it became smoother I moved to 80k's, 90k's etc. Now I can do those corners at 130k's. Confidently.

:lmao: I hope that was on a "closed circuit under controlled conditions" not on the Old Pacific Highway which seems to have gone from 100 to 80 to 60 to 40:cursing:

[Matt01]

:lmao: I hope that was on a "closed circuit under controlled conditions" not on the Old Pacific Highway which seems to have gone from 100 to 80 to 60 to 40:cursing:

Yes of course!!! hmmmmm....... hang on..........
well it was controlled............
no not the old pac, but down south past Kiama. Those that know the area should be able to work out which 'bends' i'm talkin bout.:D

[Captain]

I was thinking about those bends, funny enough. I know I'm a wuss .... but I tell ya what, there's not much room for error there. You learn so much better on the track :ayyy:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2867653120_5c814e7a15.jpg?v=0

[LAW]

wow, thanks for all the replies guys. I found after the first session of scraping my toes I tried to ride on my toes and keep my body inline with the bike as I moved off the seat (this was when I was fastest) but then for the last session I just couldn't make the magic happen. I have a pretty bad cold at the moment which made concentrating hard but hopefully for Oran I'll be right :)

I'll certainly be thinking about alot of this in two weeks when I'm at Oran Park. I ride like a pansy on the road so "practice on the road" probably won't happen :( but I'll try and remember it all for the track.

[Johnny]

Law, your being too hard on yourself mate..

First time at the creek and you walked away with 2.04s ?, you should be stoked, not pissed..



Oh, too many chiefs, not enough indians, (So many experts ?) :dohsmiley: :lmao:



See me next time your out there, will lend you a few dvds, twist of the wrist etc ;)

[Matt01]

I was thinking about those bends, funny enough. I know I'm a wuss .... but I tell ya what, there's not much room for error there. You learn so much better on the track :ayyy:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2867653120_5c814e7a15.jpg?v=0

spot on captain......
not much room for error, but atleast there's no oncoming traffic....
I am planning to start my track days around nov/dec. nicer weather, more rdo's saved from work, plus I can save my $$ for then...:mod_smilie_rockwoot
And YES i'll be booking thru RATS!!:ayyy:

[zRoYz]

:) Kiama Curves fun stretch of road that, you just have to look out for the traps that tend to sit in the break down areas.

[jasonbw]

and if you're heading south it gets mightily gusty on the very last bend... bad enough to have killed more than one unaware rider so be ready on the last bend.

[trumpst]

:) Kiama Curves fun stretch of road that, you just have to look out for the traps that tend to sit in the break down areas.
Just ask simon B :ayyy: He knows now:spank:

[wade193]

:) Kiama Curves fun stretch of road that, you just have to look out for the traps that tend to sit in the break down areas.

+1 but i have never seen any cops. Hope i never do.

[Kat00]

I'll give you a sure fire solution in 3 words.

Practise, patience, experience.

There are no shortcuts.

[Jungleboy]

I have read through the book, twice, but personally I can't make that work, as I read too much and then forget it.

I definately agree, too much theory can do your head in!

But small doses at the right intervals can be very helpfull,

I have all the twist of the wrist books on pdf but have never read more than 2-3 pages without thinking stuff this..

Imagine if we were taught to walk and run by doing a heap of theory first. Most of us would be getting around like robots...

Observe faster riders and your own pics, befriend a few people of similar speed who have the same goals as you that you can reguarily go to track with and get out there and have fun.

When you come up against any road blocks assess what you are doing wrong, read up or ask questions as you have done and visualise what you need to do to fix it then get out on the track and practice!

One of the key factors to get quicker is your mental attitude, most skills are best left to the subconcious, you learn a heap more when your out there having a blast than racking your brain for analytical answers.

One of the best tools for improvement is visualisation, after a day at the track think about where it is you need to improve the most, visualise what you need to do to improve and do this a few times before your next visit to the track especially the night before and in the morning before your first session.

The other thing is make time for yourself at the track, as much as your there to have fun and joke around with your mates, give yourself a minute or two before each session to clear your mind and think about what you are going to do once you get out there!

Cheers Jai