Rear break, thumb operated.

[jace]

Been thinking about getting one of these for a while, but @ over a $1000 its a bit rich for me.Does anyone know where I can get one cheaper?

Hmmmm....... Im feeling a homemade thumb operated rear break project coming on....:confused1:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4079/dsc02344c.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02344c.jpg)

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2946/gptfttb.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gptfttb.jpg)

[RIPPERTON]

Hmmmm....... Im feeling a homemade thumb operated rear break project coming on..

Me too
mountain bike master cylinder ?
gears are turning churnin whirin

[jace]

Me too

gears are turning churnin whirin

Haha, thought you might like the Idia....:)




.

[dazzler]

you may need an assistant..... im available every second monday at extremely cheap rates!!

[jace]

you may need an assistant..... im available every second monday at extremely cheap rates!!

Yeah while your bike is here, I'll use it for my testing so I wont risk stretching mine...:D



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[ROB83R]

What is the main advantage of this besides not being able to use your right leg properly. Or is it to do those sick Rossi leg waves comin into right handers????

[dazzler]

only seems fair mate:ayyy:

i do use my rear brake a little on the track too, so i could give some feedback to ya!

as the suspension website said it lowers the bum down so you dont do little 'stoppies' while applying the front brake

i will be watching this with interest jace, in all honesty it doesnt seem to be too difficult to get one up and running

[jace]

For me personally I would find it a lot easier to use for trail breaking, specially round right handers..


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[2ndclasscitizen]

Have a bit of a google about for how stunters do it, they'll often use a second rear caliper set-up.

[saf]

A few years ago I saw this.

http://www.clake.com.au/

The patented CLAKE is a combined clutch and rear brake lever for motorcycles and ATVs. Use your rear brake and clutch independently, or combined, for flexibility and sensitivity - in all riding conditions.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2749/clake1.jpg

Unfortunately it's not much cheaper at $1180.

[Johnny]

Why ?

[j-rad]

it's easy as to sort out, with a few options...you can use the type the stunters use or get a ZX7 Hydro clutch assembley and get your own lines madae up

Post up on Cunningstunts forum in the How to area :ayyy:

[*Oggy*]

Why ?

Good question... why use a thumb... or why use your foot.

I guess its easy to stay with the foot as that was all we had in early design when it was a rod pulling on some brake shoes and the design hasnt changed much (designers fear change - when the financial side of the business gets involved).

Although i havnt tried a thumb operated brake I can see you would get more brake feel, over the clumbsy foot.

But yep, if the foot does it for most then it does beg the question of will it be any better for what we will use it for.

May be too hard to change over (for the old brain)..

But I always like people to use the "why not"... to many wonderers and not enough doers in this world lol.

[saf]

On that note Oggy, the reason cars still use the feet for brakes, clutch and accellerator is pretty silly.

Cars originally used foot pedals for operation because there were no hydraulics or electronic assistance. It was all mechanical leverage which required the extra strength from the legs.

The hands should be relegated to the act of shifting the gear up or down which doesn't require anything but a digital level of sensitivity, as is on a bike, therefore leaving the hand otherwise commited to shifting the gearstick to operating a hand type clutch and braking system.

[1notop]

There's no need for 2 calipers.

You can run a new, longer reservoir hose(pressure rated though) up to a front master cylinder,
so the rear m/c is then in line.

Mostly a matter of finding the right master cylinder for fit and usability up front.

Note that some mountainbike stuff uses mineral oil not brake fluid and is therefore not suitable.
(their seals have issues and pack it in).

I work with a stunter guy who had a husqvarna motard set up like this a while back.
His wasn't thumb operated though,with the rear brake hand lever
rotated about 60 degrees underneath the front(which was raised a bit to compensate some).

Also, a cheap option could be,
using a 4-stroke mx-bike brake master cylinder with de-compression lever.
Set-up could be fitted with its cable actuating a remote m/c,
possibly even pulling the rear brake lever somehow.
(tag welded to it and a bracket to hold the cable's outer end)
The leverage may not be sufficient though.

I should stop thinking out loud now:)

[jace]

I did a bit more digging around on the net & these are about the cheapest so far @ around $500. Maybe we could get a better price with a group buy....http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5522/naughtyr.gif (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=naughtyr.gif)



http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5928/fullset.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fullset.jpg)







.

[*Oggy*]

Remember to add a few $$$$ for the long hydraulic line you'll also need.......

[jace]

If I can get my hands on one I may know someone that can copy the bracketing & make few up to use with a different slave cylinder thats cheaper & easy to source, like something off the rear of a Suzuki or kwaka etc...from a wrecker.

If I can get enough interest I'll get a bundle made up as a kit without the slavy & line (optional extra),or people can source their own slavy & line to suit their bike.


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[muzz]

fark i wish we had a cnc mill at work

[*Oggy*]

fark i wish we had a cnc mill at work

When I worked as a Mechanical Engineer, we used to design CNC punch press machines... Always had Kawasaki coming over to get one off gaskets made up...

Surprising how many hydraulic side operated doors were designed around the parts I needed for my project bikes then..... lol

[Marcus]

I would have thought a front brake mounted facing backwards would be in a near enough position.

Although the master cylinder size might not be a suitable match for the caliper your running so some trial and error might be needed

[*Oggy*]

$44 US $ for a pocket bike brake set-up... could be a decent doner ???

http://www.partsforscooters.com/core/media/media.nl?id=24365&c=ACCT120207&h=47350399dade49cc616b

http://www.partsforscooters.com/Front-Hydraulic-Brake-Assembly;jsessionid=0a01074e1f433b3f5aa28a574568b2 2a8c61f858f6fe.e3eTaxeKbh0Te34Pa38Ta38Obh50?sc=2&category=77225

[Pymm]

am i the only one who thinks that it would be a bit hard to co-ordinate trying to hold consistent pressure on a thumb brake like that while trying to clutch in & out on multiple downshifts?

isnt your left thumb acting as a support for your left fingers extending? (unless you're only using the index and middle finger to clutch)

[jace]

$44 US $ for a pocket bike brake set-up... could be a decent doner ???

http://www.partsforscooters.com/core/media/media.nl?id=24365&c=ACCT120207&h=47350399dade49cc616b

http://www.partsforscooters.com/Front-Hydraulic-Brake-Assembly;jsessionid=0a01074e1f433b3f5aa28a574568b2 2a8c61f858f6fe.e3eTaxeKbh0Te34Pa38Ta38Obh50?sc=2&category=77225

Thats a good idea, but it has to be one with a separate or remote res, because the molded one in that pic would be in the way & hard to service...

I've got a few options Im looking into, but I'll most prob go with a rear brake m/c mounted on the fork leg, not the handle bar, & a lever system contacted to the push rod....

[zRoYz]

Question I can see the reason a stunter needs one or a person who's right ankle doesn't work but why on a normal road bike or TB. To me you would be braking hard & need the support from the bars (as well as knees) with your thumb pulled back your not getting that support to push back & there would be a higher risk of locking the rear with to much force unlike the pulling action of the front brake. Also your initial turn in is made with a push on the bar so right hand corners while trying to use rear brake would make things harder. Also for left hand corners you if using rear brake & you push to much you will turn right.

Would take some getting used to & really can't see an advantage except for above 2 reasons.

[jace]

Question I can see the reason a stunter needs one or a person who's right ankle doesn't work but why on a normal road bike or TB. To me you would be braking hard & need the support from the bars (as well as knees) with your thumb pulled back your not getting that support to push back & there would be a higher risk of locking the rear with to much force unlike the pulling action of the front brake. Also your initial turn in is made with a push on the bar so right hand corners while trying to use rear brake would make things harder. Also for left hand corners you if using rear brake & you push to much you will turn right.

Would take some getting used to & really can't see an advantage except for above 2 reasons.


Why? Have you tried this?

Roy this is not for everyone. Some of the fastest riders in the world use this unit.
Everyone rides differently or has their own technique that works for them but does not work for others.

Different things work for different people. E.g like when Rossi sticks his foot out round corners, there is no way that I can see that working for me but it works for him. Is anyone gonna tell him he should not do that because it does not look right?

For me personally when my toes are on the peg, I find it hard sometimes to shift it forward to brake due to a knee injury from years ago, & how many times has the inside of my boot been caught on the heel plate coming into a corner. I cant say weather this will work for me or not, but Im keen to try.

[zRoYz]

Why? Have you tried this?


No which is why I asked why would somebody want this on a normal road bike or TB which you answered, you going for just the TB or road as well.

[jace]

No which is why I asked why would somebody want this on a normal road bike or TB which you answered, you going for just the TB or road as well.

If I like it (which I think I will) I'll fit it to all my bikes. A rear brake @ my finger tips...cant see how that can be bad...:confused1:

This unit is not strong enough to lock up your back wheel. Its purpose it to trim the bike & from what I read it stabilizes it in corners.


Quoted form a racers forum.....

More importantly it is excellent for positioning the bike mid-corner as you can control rear suspension compression, by dragging the rear brake, which causes the motorcycle to tighten its line allowing the power to be applied earlier, enabling a faster corner exit speed.



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[KW4K4]

Since this thread was started has anyone else read this weeks AMCN article (towards the front) about the moriwaki 250 rider praising the CLAKE system that has been fitted to his race bike? Anyone tried it since - hi praise indeed in the article.

[RIPPERTON]

This works reasonably well and is very cheap but lots of fab work involved.
Only use it going into T9

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/HANDBRAKE-1.jpg?t=1252010902

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/HANDBRAKE-2.jpg?t=1252010945

[wade193]

What am i looking at haha. It looks like a rear brake lever, but no Clutch lever. Be gentle its been a long week haha

[muzz]

whats that a throttle tube?
that a fuckin good idea

[Kringle]

Has anyone tried just drilling the crap out of the rear rotor so that the rear brake is not so sensitive?

[jasonbw]

I've not tried drilling (since it's not just straightforward drilling I understand due to tempering), but you can buy a cheap chinese rotor, I got a shithouse one off RatedR parts in Perth, works perfect.. I can stand on the brake and not lock it up.

[Bigdog]

Bugger the rear brake on the track. I only use it on the road. I get myself into enough trouble just using the front :)

[triumph]

Bugger the rear brake on the track. I only use it on the road. I get myself into enough trouble just using the front :) did someone say front brake.

[RobotPimp]

What?! Bikes have a rear brake! :hatter:

[triumph]

yeh
What?! Bikes have a rear brake! :hatter:yeh mind has.:lmao:

[Kringle]

I've not tried drilling (since it's not just straightforward drilling I understand due to tempering), but you can buy a cheap chinese rotor, I got a shithouse one off RatedR parts in Perth, works perfect.. I can stand on the brake and not lock it up.

Cool I might give that a go. Spies R1 has got a good one, heavily slotted with the slots run perpendicular to the axle.

[Kringle]

Not Spies after all.....(WSB R6)

[wade193]

I've not tried drilling (since it's not just straightforward drilling I understand due to tempering), but you can buy a cheap chinese rotor, I got a shithouse one off RatedR parts in Perth, works perfect.. I can stand on the brake and not lock it up.

Haha, thats an interesting way to get around the issue without being dodgy haha

[Captain]

Good thread. I have no 'feel' at the rear, I'm much too scared to touch it at say, full lean .... even my version of 'full lean' :lmao:

[Terry Hay]

The thumb brake is mostly used to control wheelspin on corner exits. Buy a master cylinder from a wreckers and the rest is simply leverage. Or as most do simply transfer the one thats already on the bike.
Terry

[Captain]

yes, but what is the benfit of thumb v foot? Is it for better feel, or for right hand turn clearance?

[RIPPERTON]

I use mine mostly for clearance on right handers (T9)
when you go in real deep and low you have to get your toes out of the way early and Im big on trail braking so need to have brakes right up to the apex

[wade193]

Any more progress?